"I Kissed Dating Goodbye" by Josh Harris

[jesse benishek]

[uc pseudonym]

I did skim it once. And I read a few chapters for real. In general, I'd agree with you.

[KarateGirl]

I read the book, and loved it.
I have people asking me and telling my to get a boyfriend all the time, like they really care if i do or not. And i had already decided to wait till i was older to really do any of that and seeing a book, another person out there, that agreed with me was amazing! I read the book and was so blessed by it i made my brother and my best friend AND her sister all read it!!
Also, after reading it i started scaning the book tables at retreats i went to and found "When dreams come true" by Eric Ludy. This again was an amazing blessing. Both books show you the amazing gift of being single and waiting till God says its time to date!
They give such amazing and God inspired stories that i found myself over and over saying "thats so cool!!! I want that!!" again with this second book i have lent it out to 8 people already and 3 of them i didn't even know, but where friends of my friend. So it's awesome to see where God can take these books
These are books i HIGHLY recomend. They NEVER shove anything down your throte or tell you that this is Perfect for EVERYONE but challenge you to seek God and ask what His plan is you YOU. I hope everyone that picks up either of those books can be as blesses as i am and more,from reading them!!!

[Mithrandir]

Having been on both sides of that fence, I'd say it sounds like sound advice. I 'rushed into' dating when I was younger, and consequently a lot of people (including me) were hurt. It wasn't until I got older and had the experiance from the other side of the equation that I realized how painful it could be. After a stint in the "I'm not gonna go there" camp, I met a really cool gal. For some reason (insert God here) the difference in this relationship was night and day diff from any other.

I guess that was a bit of a ramble, but my point is this: When I realized that actively seeking the relationship didn't work, I stopped. That gave God the oppertunity to show me the one that was right. I'm not saying that this will work for everyone, just giving you my take on it.

[Nu-En-Jin]

After having read both of Mr. Harris' books, I can agree that they are helpful, but in my personal experience, just focusing on God can be a half-hearted thing for some. Still holding to the hope that someday, once you've "tricked" God into thinking that you're only focused on Him, He'll bless you with your mate.
The trick for me has been to REALLY evaluate myself, and do like the book says (both of them, actually- the book, and the BOOK, if you know what I mean...), don't waste your years waiting around for life to happen. "Seek first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness..."
As a single, highly ministry-involved person, I have come to discover that always watching for "the one" to come strolling into church, just because you're there and not out being stupid, is like opening half the presents at Christmas. God has called us to be completely His.
Wow.
Didn't mean to get all preachy there. I guess I would just caution others to evaluate whether or not they could stand to be with a spouse who truly devotes his or her time to Jesus, and loves the Lord more than they love you, even. If not, maybe the center of your being is invested in the hope of another flawed human, and not in the perfection of Christ?

[Mave]

You may think I'm lazy or unromantic, but in high school, I gave up on trying to search for my future mate (waste of time, IMO at that time). So I said to God, "You know, You're the one who knows me and my future mate the best (if there is one). And You also know the best time to put us together. So, I'm going to move on with my life and do what's the best for now." I surrendered it all to God, kissed all that dating/matchmaking goodbye (just like J. Harris) and when I met my current boyfriend, it was a surprise for me. I wasn't even searching then. However, I think that book is good for someone who's still looking and want some guidance but I personally feel that letting God handle everything is the way to go.

I read the books after becoming "attached" and found the second book more applicable due to my current needs hehe. "Boy Meets Girl : Say Hello to Courtship" I recommend it too. LIke what some have said, both books provide suggestions and ideas but you are given the freedom to make your choices in the end.

[jesse benishek]

Thanks for all your guy's imputs. I agree with you all and hope that you (and me) will read his next book. Your stories all sound a lot like my own in some way or another.

[madphilb]

Oooo!!! Oooo!!!!!

I haven't read Josh's 2nd book yet (want too though), but the 1st book was great!

Can't tell you how it works out though, not from personal experience anyway... I read it after my ex-wife divorced me (long story, involves two "broken" people and some other issues).

When she left (for the 2nd time actually), and it was obvious there wasn't going to be another chance (BTW ladies, don't complain later if you tell a man to leave you alone and then he listens to you ), anyway, I was a real mess... I started really seaching God for answers, and got lots of them too. Much of what I feel that God was showing me about myself and the relationship me and my "ex" had (and where we went wrong on things) are what Josh talks about in his book. The book came up with some of the people that I attended church with, but I didn't feel a need to read it at the time, I wasn't dating and didn't plan on it anytime soon.

In the end I did pick up the book and read it, found that it covered many of the things that I either had learned though the previous months of searching, had read or heard about from other sources in the past, or simply had God show me or I observed for myself.

Even in the restoration I was standing in faith for (still am, as complex as the whole situation has become, God hasn't told me different)... I knew that this was the foundation that any relationship needed to be founded on, not what I had done in the past (which where always failues).

I also notes in observing others (teens in the church, people in general, some of the people at my job(s), etc.) that the "normal" way of doing things from the "world's" point of view... it created a ton of emotional greef that would be avoided if following what I believe to be God's way of doing things.

I would note that some people find the book on the extreame or unrealistic side (I have friend that I respect that have said such things), but I feel that they don't quite understand what Josh Harris has written about or don't want to "give up" those things that they desire (I used to laugh at some of the ideas in that book, I thought they where insane!).

My 2 yen, or whatever

PHIL

[Turbocat]

That's an awesome book, I sure wish it was available when I was in college...dating isn't the way God intended people to get married, IMHO. My husband courted me all the way...he let me know pretty early on what his intentions were, and the whole experience was sooo different (and better) than the dating scene. Wow I need to read his 2nd book too...I want to teach my daughter those values in about 14 years...

[Azier the Swordsman]

Yeah, those are good books. I'm 16 and have never once pursued a relationship with ANYBODY. But I still have doubts to the existence of 'Love'. The whole concept of true romantic love doesn't make sense to me.

[Rashiir]

I really enjoyed this book...I was kinda mixed up in that area and I found a lot of what he said to be very good advice. Focusing on what's important and letting God worry about the rest has been very helpful for my life.

[Bobtheduck]

I commend him on what he did, and also at wanting to help people stay pure, but strongly disagree that courting is somehow more "spiritual" or biblical than dating... It's not... There is no courting in the bible, only a form of arrange marriage by the bridegroom and the bride's father. I had written up a long explanation of my stance and it got erased when I accidentally hit the back button... GRR...

Ok... I did not read his book, so I can't comment on what HE actually said. What has turned me off to it, however, has been the following he has created.

I will be dating... In fact, if a girl I like decides that dating is wrong, well... We probably won't be getting married. The first issue I have had with his "followers" has been one of semantics...

What is Dating?? Well, the way I describe it is doing fun things with someone you are interested in. This is an act that many who follow his book claim they will never do. I don't believe that there is anything wrong or dangerous in any way about dating by this definition. I will

Others, who follow the "no dating" thing, say that Dating is the casual nature of going from person to person. I believe that is the primary thing that Josh Harris' book was warning against, or at least that's the idea I got from the little I actually did read. First off, I don't ever consider the search for a mate "casual" but I also know that since there is going to be ONE person I'll marry, that means that most of the girls I like are NOT going to be my mate... He talks of a dream going to the altar where this girl has all these guys she had "given her heart to" and this is a valid point. When people give their heart away a lot, it damages them... However, the casual dating and the first definition I gave aren't any more condusive to giving your heart away than courting. Furthermore, courting isn't guaranteed to be stable... Things happen, people break up even if they aren't "together" in their own terms that doesn't stop them from giving their hearts away to each other and, I'd venture to say that females even more than males (though I'm one of the male exceptions to this, as I gave my heart away quite easily) are more likely to give their heart away than their boyfriends, leaving an imbalance, and in the end, a lot of pain.

Now, what is courting? This seems to be even more ambiguous, as no one seems to have a solid answer on this... Is it "only friendship" until you get married? Is it constant parental supervision? Is it only seeing them at their house?

Well, by my mother's definition, courting is going to the person's house and being with their family... Now, this is fine and dandy. Nothing wrong with it... However, there is this vilification of "dating" that says it creates false images about the person... Not only is this a broad generalization, it also fails to take into account the same thing happens with courting... I mean, when I go to hang out with mary-sue's father, shotgun sam, I am going to be trying REALLY hard to hide the negative aspects of my personality... Much harder than I would around mary-sue (sorry, milly, this is the only name that came to mind...) and therefore, mary-sue will be getting a worse false image from my visits to her house than she would if we went to the carnival. At her house in front of her father I may be very polite and help clean up dishes and not speak my mind and be very quiet... Because fathers can be quite protective, I'm much more likely to be fake around papa than I am around just her.

The worst thing is when I hear, and I heard this all the time in northern california from both males and females, "Dating isn't biblical" but, as I mentioned before, neither is courting... Of course, some people don't want to listen to that. They think I'm just being argumentative or just being selfish, but that is a plain fact. Dating isn't ungodly either. Having fun and seeing movies or going to sporting events or skating or going to a restaurant or walking alone on the beach at sunset... These things aren't evil or wrong.

As for intimacy, intimacy isn't binary (AKA on or off) it's very much an analog thing... Ok, what I mean by that is that I get intimate with my friends all the time (for those of you put off by that statement, you have a distorted definition of that word)... More intimate than I do with people I don't know, that's for sure. Also, a man and wife become intimate... Well, by that I mean they get more intimate... In between that, in our society where the biblical example of arranged marriage isn't possible, I think it's necissary for there to be intimacy between two people that think they are going to be married... The marriage is formed based on personality now, not on security, so the requirements are different. There MUST be a deeper intimacy there than there is at just a friendship level. At the same time, there must NOT be the level intimacy there that husband and wife share... So do they get that intimacy from being monitored full time? I don't believe they do.

A comment I've heard is that if two people want to be alone, they should be able to do in public what they want to do in private... That's just not the case... I mean, even platonic relationships that are deep (like two good friends of the same gender) often require "alone time" to really learn something, and it is essential that a marriage, since we can't have the arranged marriage anymoer, be based on friendship. And a deep friendship you can't get when sharing it with everyone... Now as for it being dangerous to be alone, well you do set up guards and such, but to get to know the person to decide if you really want to spend the rest of your life with them (once again, deciding only because the culture eliminated arranged marriage) you need time to talk only to that person...

I think when you are considering a mate, you should spend a lot of time with them, then you should also spend a lot of time away... The first to find out what they're like, the second to find out what you're like. It shouldn't be just at their house with their parents, because then you only get a small picture... True, you will never get the complete picture, but you should get a bigger picture than just courting has to offer (though this logic could extend into sexual areas, clearly out of bounds and that's NOT what I'm talking about)

All of this "you should" and "you must" things are really not the right way for me to say this... I'll leave them with this, though... What I meant by all of that (but it's too long for me to say over and over) is that those things are normally important... If God has layed it on your heart to abandon this, then fine... But not if "Josh" has layed it on your heart. Take his advice and warnings about staying pure and not giving your heart away and not having baggage, but it's not "biblical" to abandon dating, it is just a tactic that worked for one person so he shared it. And please don't take this post as an attack on him... I have no way to do that as I haven't read all of his book, and what I did, I found very positive. I just found very negative the responses I would get from people who treat his book like it's the bible itself...

Please forgive my numerous grammer, spelling, and other errors... My brain has not been working right the last few days or so... I know the style and presentation of this is horrible and some of the points I wanted to make aren't here, some are repeated, and some are presented incorrectly... Halloween time has always been really bad for me (depression and other such problems) and I'm not the most put together around that time...

Well, I can't really argue for or against not dating because I'll just talk myself in circles... It's up to the people who chose it. However, the fault lies in the [spoiler="this word is the best one to use but it may offend some even if it is the best word to use"]damning[/spoiler] of the practice of dating... There's nothing wrong with going out on dates, please don't take this book as scripture, it's just what he chose to keep himself pure... If that's what you choose, then good, but don't feel you have to. Along those lines, there is another book called "I gave dating a chance" and you may be interested in that... Both books agree that we need to do whatever we can to stay sexually pure, but I just don't think that it's dating that's making us unpure...

[Shinja]

i persoanally have nothing aginst dateing, though ive had no experiance with it either, i believe dateing and courting are both good, for some dateing is fine for other courting would be better i think. from my experiance watching others date i think thier biggest problem with dateing is the reason they are dateing. where i live most of the people date for themselves they want the relationship cause they want to be happy, or thay want this out of it or that. and relation ships are two way streets. and love is somthing you give, not somthing you take. so if you are dateing with the right mind set it can be very good.

[madphilb]

Try not to take this the wrong way Bob, but you should really read the book cover to cover before trying to shoot holes through it.... most hear of the book (and/or some quotes of it) and think the thing is about never spending time with another person (which would be rather stupid)....

Part of what the book covers is the attitude that you've got to "date around" to find someone. That's where you hop from person to person looking for mr/mrs right. Much of that leads up to the "going steady" thing.

Part of the context of those things deals with people who are in school. Look at the kids in HS, are they looking for their future husband or wife? No, almost all of them aren't, they have no plans to marry anytime soon (and if they feel they are I personally would wager that they're riding some sort of chemical or emotional high, the kind that results in too much touchie-feelie type of stuff).

I don't think anyone is taking the book as scripture either, though some people do tend to get over-zeleous with some stuff, I don't think that's the case here. For me personally, I learned the principles in that book long before I read it. In fact, I read the book to see if it confirmed what I had already learned (thought it would be neat if it did), rather than looking for answers or anything.

This is one of those things that, for those who see it, it makes more sense than to do it any other way.... I'm failing to come up with the right wording for it at the moment.

And BTW, if you decide to read the book, but can't find/aford a copy (i.e. library, church library, friend), PM me with your address and I'll personally mail you my copy to read, I feel the information in the book is that good.

PHIL

[Bobtheduck]

Try not to take this the wrong way Bob, but you should really read the book cover to cover before trying to shoot holes through it.... most hear of the book (and/or some quotes of it) and think the thing is about never spending time with another person (which would be rather stupid)....

I wasn't shooting holes in the book, I was shooting holes in the things fans of the book have said to me. I can't possibly in good conscience shoot holes in the book as i haven't read it all the way. Oh, and I wasn't defending "spending time with another person" I was defending spending time alone with another person, wholly more controversial but it shouldn't be. It can lead to dangerous things if precautions aren't made, but the act in and of itself isn't dangerous in fact in most cases (unless God has asked for specifics, where he'll make a way) it's necissary, at least for short periods of time

I don't think anyone is taking the book as scripture either, though some people do tend to get over-zeleous with some stuff, I don't think that's the case here.

I ran into so many people that swore up and down that dating was EVIL and courting was holy... I think they WERE taking it as scripture and they WERE being incredibly over zealous to the point of at least on a couple occasions my views being called morally wrong and anti-biblical. Of course, it's not just Josh Harris's book that is causing this problem, which I should have clarified and I'm sorry. There is a pamphlet going around with similar but more extreme ideas (written by my friend's dad, actually... can't dispute it around her, even though she doesn't follow it completely...) and though it isn't as well known, it contributes to the feelings in christians in that area and leads to the "Dating is wrong, courting is the only biblically ok way" which just isn't true.

[jesse benishek]

[cbwing0]

I have been meaning to read this book for a while, and I probably will at some point. I can say that I have had some bad experiences with dating, but I know people who have had very good experiences with it (although they are definitely in the minority). Does the book actually go into detail about the practice of courting?

[The Grammarian]

Boy Meets Girl, Harris' follow-up, goes into detail about courtship, whereas IKDG is more of a book aimed at explaining the problems with many of modern dating's practices. Many people consider Boy Meets Girl the better of the two.

[Saint Kevin]

I've read a tiny bit of each, but I think that I might have to read both. It's good to get godly counsel from somebody who has been there before. From the speeches I've heard him give, and the parts of his books I've read, I think he really had high school aged kids in mind when he wrote this, and that he primarily wanted to challenge some of the stupid reasons kids date, not the practice of dating per se.

[Bobtheduck]

I don't know about Harris himself, I only know that most of his hardcore fans I've met are nuts... I've met too many overbearing and incorrect followers... They take like two of his points, add them up to 3 and run with it... "Because I read 'I Kissed Dating Goodbye' and Josh Harris told me dating was from Satan"

Even if he didn't say that, I was sick of his followers that did.

Then there's my friend's Dad, who happens to be a pastor... His view is psycho... Forbid's all intergender physical contact that's not between a married couple, and says it's bad for people to be unmarried long after the age of 18... Also teaches that touchless courting routines are BIBLICAL (when neither courting nor dating are "biblical") with a few other things... His daughter doesn't even live up to his rules, but will defend him to the death on it... Thankfully, I'm nowhere near anyone who has access to that pamphlet, so I've only got to deal with extreme "IKDGB" nuts.

Be aware there is another book called "I gave Dating a Chance" though I haven't even looked at this, but it is a Christian book... http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1578563291/qid=1075458078//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i12_xgl14/002-5752663-1938434?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[uc pseudonym]

As I interpreted it (and it was quite a casual interpretation, as I'm extremely laid back about the subject), the distinction between dating and courtship is relatively minimal. What many people call "dating" could well fall under his interpretation of "courtship." Both classifications are just names.

Though I'm unfamiliar with the opposite side, I'm relatively certain they'd end up agreeing on the same principles, and that most of the conflict lies within misunderstanding.

[madphilb]

I think, Bob, that you're experience is much in the minority.... as are those freaks you've talked about before.

We each are answerable to God... while at his Singles weekend, Ray Mossholder talked about his son's leading from God to not even hold hands with the woman he was "dating" at the time.

I am a fan of the idea of not kissing before marriage, but I'm not hard pressed to make that a 'law" in my life, nor would I say that it's something that has to be. Frankly I went the opposite route with all my relationships, and all of them have gone down in flames (including my marriage)... usually because we didn't stop there, sad as it is.

Much of the "dating" that Josh talks about is more of a social "dating," or more of a "dating for the sake of dating" type of dating. Don't know what I mean? Watch about any contemporary show and you'll see what I mean... the "gotta have someone" syndrome.

From that aspect, what some people call "dating" is really just courtship.... it's a natural progression toward marriage.

There was a couple in a church I used to attend, they did things that sort of way... in fact I had recommended that they contact Harris as he was looking for stories of people for the sequal to IKDG which is now out (don't know if they ever did or not).

BTW, I'd kinda like to see some of what was "biblical" be put back in place.. .I think it would be of great help to people.... and frankly there are some advantages to "arranged" marriages (little or no emotional involvement that can cloud good judgement, which is why I also like much of the "hands off" idea of dating).

Just so you know... much of what I believe now I thought was insanely unrealistic and stupid years ago.

If you haven't read the book, I suggest you do so, but prayerfully with God (and hopefully by putting those silly people you know out of your mind when you do). There are zealots with anything, doesn't make the source info wrong.

[cbwing0]

if u want an review on the book...i have one because my teach in english class heard of the book and thought it was sooo interesting..she did an entire discussion about it, it was pretty cool..so if u like i can send u the review of it and u could just read the basic..the book is soo well in tuned even the basics tell u a lot...and make u startled...

Thanks...that would be a good prelude to reading the actual book. You can PM it to me if you like, or post if here if you think that everyone else could benefit from it.

[Kisa]

I heard it is good, iss it worth reading?
I also want to read his book "Boy meets Girl", is that one good too?
^_^

[Rashiir]

I think the whole "courtship" thing is that you're using a different word so that everyone knows from the get-go that what you're doing is not the same as what everyone else is doing... The dating advice column in Seventeen isn't gonna apply.

[hana]

i read his second book, "Boy meets Girl" where he find his wife. it's so insightful. it tells me alot of things that i don't realize and need to watch out for. i highly reccomend it to everyone and i hope to get my hands on his 1st book "i kissed dating goodbye" very soon.