Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead

[alf4office]

I've recently finished Ayn Rand's The Fountainhead, and I have found it to be the most interesting, well written book I've ever read. While I find parts f her phiolosophy, Objectivism, logical, other parts seem contrary to the Christian faith. If anyone else has read the book have you noticed any similarities/differences between Christianity and Objectivism, and do you think there's any way for the two to coexist?

[ThaKladd]

Hi

I have ben interessted in Ayn Rand's Objectivism for some time now. I have not read "The fountainhead" but I have read "Anthem", one chapter about religion in "OPAR", little bit in "for the new intellectual" and about 400 pages + John Galt speech of "Atlas Shrugged". I have also read some longer articles that Leonard Peikoff has written and some biography stuff... (in time of school i got so little time to read that much of Ayn Rand...)

For the first time I heard of Ayn Rand and Objectivism I thought that it Could coexist with Christianity. Of course not the view Ayn Rand has on Christianity and God, but a lot of other things. Although egoism should not be our highest way to achive luck, but she does make some good points that can coexist with christian view of living.. I found very many similaritys, and also I have an Idea to make a christian kind of Objectivism(just in my mind...) because I think that Ayn Rand had too little knowledge about Christianity and the bible because she takes so directly wrong about it(and does not use a objective look at it ).

I find much of her stuff so logical that it cannot be false, but when she discard faith, God and other things naturally I think something is wrong and contradict christianity... so you should be aware... When I read John Galt speech, in some parts I was thinking like.... "Antichrist is going to say the exact same thing....".. an example is when Ayn Rand takes the serpents side in the garden of Eden and meant that it was right for Adam and Eve to eat the fruit.... I can understand her in her thinking, but she does not have the right idea of what the "tree of knowledge about good and evil" really was... she does not know what christianity really is, I think.. (she have never experienced it..)

I wrote a mail to Leonard Peikoff, and they sent me a some tips about where Ayn Rand talk about Belief, God and christianity/religion:

--Philosophy: Who Needs It, by Ayn Rand, especially the article "Faith
and Force"
--For the New Intellectual, by Ayn Rand, especially the title article
--The Ayn Rand Lexicon, edited by H. Binswanger, esp. the section on
"religion".
--Objectivism: The Philosophy of Ayn Rand, by Dr. Peikoff, esp.
chapters 1-6.


There are more in Atlas Shrugged and other of the books - but not so much spesific about the teaching - more like braided in with all the other stuff in the books...


*hope I didn't write anything really wrong...* (my english is not the best.. )

btw.
One of Norways few Objectivist is in the same class as I, and I learn a lot from him... (not christian - so we debate a lot...)

[Technomancer]

I've read her short novel "Anthem" (and one of her plays) but was unimpressed, both with the quality of writing and and the philosophy that underlies her work. More importantly, I find that any philosophy that is founded on absolute self-interest to be irreconcilable with the idea that as Christians we should strive to live in the imitation of Christ.

Personally, I favour some form of social democracy as a truer political expression of the message of the gospel.

[alf4office]

Technomancer, I'm not familar with her plays, but the novel I read was brilliantly written. With regards to Objectivism and Christianity I would say there are several parts that can work together. Objective truth, her views on art, and parts of her views on second-handers (people who try to achieve their goals through others and sell themselves out) In the book, The Fountainhead, she really puts an emphasis on not selling yourself out. So many people try to achieve wealth or happiness by giving the world their soul in return for a momentary pleasure. That's the way Elssworth Toohey worked. By giving unexperienced architects amazing commissons he was able to control their soul in a way. I was very easily able to realte it to the way satan functions.

Ayn Rand presents 2 oppertunities you have in life. You can sell your soul to the world or someone else in search of power, or you can use your own power to achieve what you can. Ayn Rand very much put religion under the catagory of selling out your soul, which I would agree. When you become a Christian you're no longer running off your own power, but that of Christ's. And by giving your life to Christ you achieve the most complete and true satisfaction and joy in him. I think this is where Objectivism and Christianity really splits. Objectivism claims that when you sell your soul to whatever cause it always ends negativly. And that the best way to live your life is by your own power. Christianity says that there's only two paths. Living for God or not. Living for God, and dedicating your life to him leads to the most complete joy, whereas living for yourself and living for satan ultimately leads to the destruction of your soul.

While Objectivism is mostly logical, I don't think Ayn Rand thought it out completely when it came to religion.

[Technomancer]

I think Objectivism's problems go beyond the fact that as you mentioned, Rand's conclusion about the purpose of man is at odds with the Christian position (where you mentioned "selling oneself"). Instead, I think that the problem starts earlier.

Objectivism begins with the premise that there is an objective reality. Fair enough, so do we. However, it is central to the philosophy that the nature of reality can be worked out through reason alone. This is where the problems start, since we affirm God can only be fully known through his self-communication (i.e Revelation). This has consequences, because it is through revelation that we come to more fully understand ourselves, our relationship to each other and to God. And these truths are meant to guide our behaviour, rather than relying on mere self-interest. This is not to say that our faculty of reason is useless, but it is bounded.

On another level, the philosophy seeks to celebrate the power of human reason. Again, not a bad idea, but not the whole story either. Humans are not purely rational beings. We are also products of nature and nurture, carrying with us all sorts of psychological and evolutionary baggage, that limits our rationality. From a theological perspective, we run into further trouble owing to the idea of Original Sin. If we are sinful in nature, then even rational choices may be set aside in favour of short-term gains. The prisoner's dilemna, although having a simple solution, still manages to trip us up.

What I have found from reading Objectivists is that their philosophy is no more "objective" than communism is "scientific" socialism. It is simply an attempt to wear the mantle of empiricism without accepting its rigour or its discipline, and acknowledging its limitations. Moreover, a great deal of stock is put in freedom of action, but little thought is given to the idea that there can be freedom from things as well. And that these latter freedoms require an active government and a commitment to a greater good.

[alf4office]

I agree that Objectivismdiffers from Christianity in many regards, however I do disagree with your first point. I do think that the Objective truth of Christ can be discovered logically through the historical actions of Christ and the historical documentation that is the bible. I do agree with your second point. Our human logic is pretty sketchy. I wouldn't say it's infalable, so to celebrate it as something grand and wonderful probably isn't the best idea.

[ThaKladd]

I think we can use our logic sense(because logic is not against god), and desire for reason. Thats nothing wrong with it. God is Reason. And for me it is reasonable to believe in God. Belief does not contradict reason. Reason and logic can bring belief.

Because Ayn Rand exalt Reason and logic, I truly respect her very much.

But because Ayn Rand's conlusion about God and the purpose of man is not right I am very critical too objectivism. But if you wash away the mud in her philosophy that is against my(our - christian) belief, then there is still a lot of things left.

Ayn Rand means that the purpose of life is to achive the "most comlete joy" - but in my faith that is the plan God have for me and to everyone who believes. So they are kind of similiar, except in the answer to "what is the most complet joy?". When that changes you have to change some major things in the philosofical point of view if you want to be a "christian objectivist"... and in that way take distance from Ayn Rands objectivism.

[SManBeyond]

For those of you who are interested, the great theologian / writer John Piper (the author of great books such as Desiring God, The Passion of Jesus Christ and A Call to Spiritual Reformation) has an article discussing objectivism. He also mentions some of the major similarities and differences between it and Christianity. You can find it here.

[shooraijin]

That was quite a post, Protagonist .... ! Why don't you post a welcome thread about yourself?