Gamecast - Special - Metal Gear Solid 4 Spoilercast

[Link Antilles]

In this special show, we talk all about the ending and all the secrets found in the finale of the Metal Gear Saga! Warning: If you have not played Metal Gear Solid 4.... DO NOT LISTEN. MAJOR SPOILERS!!!!


Grab the show on iTunes or go here: http://www.linkantilles.com/caagamecast/

Side Note: Apologies for some sound issues and static in places.

[Raiden no Kishi]

In before "Metal GEAR!?"

Downloaded, will listen and offer comments later. This is one I was really hoping you guys would do. ^_^

.rai//

[bigsleepj]

(this post contains spoilers for both the MGScast as well as Metal Gear Solid 4)

I downloaded it last night and listened to it on the bus to work, then listened to it at work as well. Having played the game (I crammed it during a weekend!) but having never really played any other games (except the Solid Snake "Intro" from MGS2, which is only probably an eight of the game), I would just like to clear up one particular thing you've said. If you have a vague idea who the characters are (like Big Boss and Liquid Snake) then it is quite possible to actually understand the plot, if only through a great deal of concentration during the cutscenes. That said, since I haven't played the other games, I am afraid the finer details of both the plot and the things you're arguing over was lost on me, more or less. But the overall plot (including the AI's, the Patriots, the Philosophers, Big Boss, Zero) I got.

That said...

[spoiler]you're right, the story was constructed to so that Solid Snake would die at the end, since the artistically the story does point that way. However Kojima & co could have deliberately constructed the story as a tragedy so that there they can spring the surprise on the gamers at the end, meaning much of it the narrative could possibly be an intricate red herring. Which, if its true, doesn't make the ending excusable. Its one thing to "play the audience like a piano" (as Hitchcock said) and give the players a good, well constructed twist, and its another to contrive a different twist that feels tacked on. It's an interesting variation of what the Turkey City Lexicon calls "The Jar of Tang" cliché, only worse thought out.

Although, as a Metal Gear layman, I took the whole ending at face value ("as one of those things" seeing that this was the part where I particularly realized I was ultimately out of my depth with the finer details) I found myself agreeing more and more with your response. Kojima was in an excellent position to do something both great, enigmatic, unexpected and bold, and did none of that with his ending. Instead he just resolved to an unnecessary twist and an old cliché, thrown in for reasons that may remain forever opaque. I can understand his decision is a "crowd pleaser" for many, and technically that is the aim of many games, but sometimes we don't always need to pleased with a "happy" ending. Solid Snake dieing would have been more poignant and even horrifying, and this might have been a milestone in the long-going battle to make nay-sayers admit that games are maturing from a pass-time into an art form.[/spoiler]

I'm probably going to get a lot of flack for the above.

[Bobtheduck]

Ok, I'll discuss this podcast later, but... a spoiler about heavenly sword (since putting WHAT The spoiler is about will make it unhide itself for some reason) [spoiler]On the game tragedy thing, we HAVE a tragedy game, and that's heavenly sword... She uses up her life to defeat Bohan, and she DIES at the end... And stays dead... That shocked me, and they made it look like she was gonna survive, and she dies... That was the first game I'd ever played like that... Maybe you didn't care for Nariko, but it was definitely a tragedy.[/spoiler]

Now a spoiler for Silent Hill 2 [spoiler]Also a tragedy... The whole thing lead up to his coming to terms with what he'd done, and even the "good" ending ends on Mary's letter, but in the Water ending, he commits suicide because he can't take it, the maria ending means he has to experience losing mary all over again, the resurrection ending means that instead of learning his lesson, he invites the evil back into the world through his selfishness... The only non-tragic ending in that game is the stupid dog ending, because the first 3 SH games all had alternate comedy endings) That was just about the most tragic game in existence...[/spoiler]

I'll get into other stuff later.

[Raiden no Kishi]

[spoiler]My knowledge may be sorely lacking, but I could also see ending the story with Snake's suicide to add a more Japanese flavor. To me, the whole "war has changed" theme combined with Snake's aging calls to mind the Meiji era and the fading of the age of the samurai - ala The Last Samurai. While the mutant FOXDIE adds another dimension, I could see Snake's death as a parallel of sorts to an old master samurai deciding that the new world simply no longer has a place for him. The issue of being a "human biological weapon" seems like it would frame it as a last act of heroism as well.

However, while I agree that the bit with Big Boss felt tacked-on and poorly done, I'm glad they didn't end it with Snake killing himself, as I personally am disgusted by the concept of suicide. I would have preferred a death in battle if they were going to kill Snake off at the end of the game - sort of a guns-blazing, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid sort of end.[/spoiler]

.rai//