Zondervan jumps on the manga wagon

[Gypsy]

Oh my heavens, the Christian publishing industry is finally taking the sales hint (because sales move the Christian publishing world) from companies like Tokyo Pop, Del Ray, and Darkhorse : manga sells.

Not only does it sell, but it sells to Christians.

No longer are the Christian publishers hiding behind the controversy, they're completely embracing the manga format and doing what they do best - ripping mainstream ideas off, slapping a Christian label on it, and reselling it.

Oops, that was mildly cynical, let me start over ...

Actually, some of these upcoming titles from Zondervan's newest branch, Z Graphic Novels, don't look half bad. There's the usual "hey, this is 'manga' and therefore cool!" but it's really just western comic art thrown in there, but other than that, I think this is a decent start to the infant Christian manga industry.

Here's the link for the curious: http://www.zondervan.com/Cultures/en-US/Product/Kidz/Kidz+ZGraphic+Novels.htm?QueryStringSite=Zondervan

[Fish and Chips]

I have to admit, I'm skeptical of most Christian persuits in popular media. With a front like "Kidz ZGraphic Novels," doubly so.

[ShiroiHikari]

Interesting. Like you said, it's a start. And some of the titles do look halfway decent.

[Ashley]

Pardon me for being incredibly cynical here, but it looks like their doing to the manga industry what they've done to just about every other form of Christian entertainment: take something that hit mainstream pop culture 5-10 years ago, do little if ANY creative work, then slap a Christian label on it and hope that elitism will sell sub-par work.

I hope as my Christian brothers they will prove me wrong and make a really awesome work worth selling and spreading the Gospel in a good way. You know, C.S. Lewis style. But sadly, their track record does not leave me hopeful.

[Radical Dreamer]

Hmmm...overall, I'm skeptical, though I do hope they turn out to be better. Some of the ideas seem over-used and Christian-ized, and I can't say I'm a big fan of the art style, but I guess we'll see. I'm not expecting much, though.

[KBMaster]

Aw, I was expecting a little better.... They all look pretty, well, lame. BUt, it's a start. Maybe someday the Christian manga industry will produce something good, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[righteous_slave]

Everything has to start somewhere. It wasn't that long ago when every Christian metal band was nothing more than a Christian version of fill in the blank. The scenes have matured and developed, and this just may do the same thing.

[uc pseudonym]

Ah, yes, ZonderKidZ. I've been monitoring them since they made that announcement months ago (and they've been thinking about doing this for years). Given my semi-professional interest in the field, I'll probably purchase some of their titles and at least skim the others somewhere. Currently my cynicism is being withheld until I have actually read them.

I'd say their launch titles strike me as a varied bunch, actually. The Manga Bible is authentic manwha, but I was immensely unimpressed by the sample pages. TimeFlyz makes me shudder. But I have decent hopes for Kingdoms, as it seems they've done their research and fleshing out a biblical narrative isn't a bad premise. Hand of the Morningstar is obviously very American, but frankly I don't care: that doesn't keep it from being good writing, and I'd prefer that to a desperate effort to be Japanese.

[Shinja]

hmm im cynical about the content. zondervan has of recent been more focused on profit than biblical truth.

[Gypsy]

No longer are the Christian publishers hiding behind the controversy, they're completely embracing the manga format and doing what they do best - ripping mainstream ideas off, slapping a Christian label on it, and reselling it.

Pardon me for being incredibly cynical here, but it looks like their doing to the manga industry what they've done to just about every other form of Christian entertainment: take something that hit mainstream pop culture 5-10 years ago, do little if ANY creative work, then slap a Christian label on it and hope that elitism will sell sub-par work.

Hmm, we really should get that echo fixed.

Everything has to start somewhere. It wasn't that long ago when every Christian metal band was nothing more than a Christian version of fill in the blank. The scenes have matured and developed, and this just may do the same thing.

I like your attitude. Honestly, I hope this venture puts us all, myself included, to shame.

[Mave]

Everything has to start somewhere. It wasn't that long ago when every Christian metal band was nothing more than a Christian version of fill in the blank. The scenes have matured and developed, and this just may do the same thing.

I have hopes that this will eventually lead to the high standards that some christian music labels has finally reached (well....at least, I really love what some Christian artistes are doing). So, bring it on. Some titles look quite American in artstyle but I think I can live with that if the storyplot is good.

While Christian entertainment has many areas of improvement, I'd just like to point out that some secular comics aren't exactly that great either.

[Lochaber Axe]

Lets not have cynicism take over, mmkay? This is indeed a time for prayer as these individuals will need it as they stumble down the stairs of the comic book industry.

[mitsuki lover]

We shall see.Though I wonder if they will be seeing it as simply an extension of their already existing Christian Comics line.

[mitsuki lover]

I went and looked it up after I logged out yesterday and have to say wasn't much impressed.For one thing they seem to be falling into the 'Manga/Anime is for
Teens/Tweens' stereotype.Another problem I see is that they forget that Shintoism is just as much a part of Japanese culture as Protestantism is of American.
As far as the titles themselves go...I wonder if someone was watching a bit too much Azumnaga Daioh when they came up with the one title as they have a character named Tomo in it.
The Bible mangas might be decent,but it's been done before in comic book form.
And as far as the Superhero ones...since when did Zondervan suddenly get a
Stan Lee complex?
btw:IMO I can see where they're probably actually selling to the parents and grandparents,etc.I don't see any otaku actually wanting to pick up any of these
to keep and read.

[Gypsy]

Well, at least it's a foot in the door. Maybe a toe.

[Lochaber Axe]

Only an otaku knows what an otaku wants, and I highly doubt that the people behind Z graphic novels are otaku. Fans of anime and manga? Sure, probably, but the one's pulling the strings I highly doubt. They only see the teen market's potential. They still don't see it as an all ages media outlet, and that it is highly adaptable. Christian movie and music making is still in its adolescents to me, but it is growing and spreading outwards every day.

How long has it taken for manga to get even this far accepted in Mainstream Christianity?

[The Doctor]

For many years I've HATED the Christian Entertainment Industry.

Let's see, to date they've made 8 TRILLION Apocalypse movies, all of which have SUCKED and looked like they belonged more on a Mystery Science Theater 3000 episode than on a movie screen.

They've beaten the subject to death. Move on.

When I saw some Christian manga in a Christian bookstore, I shudderred because it looked horrid and the story was boring.

I'm a filmmaker (also going in the anime realm) and when I study movies and anime, I STAY AWAY from the Christian companies and study Hollywood, Robert Rodriguez, and Japan. Why? They may be secular, but they know how to tell a story alot better than most of the Christian producers.

However, there are exceptions.
For me the BIGGEST exception is the Radio Series, Adventures in Odyssey. Those guys KNOW how to tell a story and to date I think is the most creative Christian storytelling ever (lately they've been going into a nosedive, but I think it's only cause they've been around for about over a decade).

The second is Passion of the Christ (nothing more needs to be said on this subject).

And, I THINK the Christian industry is getting the message because I've been noticing some better movies. Like "The Visitation", which I think is the BEST Christian movie I've even seen, say for Passion. The ending is the only thing I have a problem with, but it honestly LOOKED and FELT like a Hollywood movie.

I have reservations about the manga stuff. More than likely they'll follow the current Hollywood trend of repackaging old stories or, even better, let's tell stories where the main character looks straight at us and gives us the four spiritual laws out of nowhere mid-story.

I like how my buddy Ash Green puts it: Steven Seagal is a Buddhist, but in his movies you never see him look at the camera and tell us about Buddhism. Instead, he merely has his character behave as a Buddhist would."

Why not have CHRISTIAN characters do the same? I've long thought about the idea of "how would a Christian respond to situations like Jack Bauer finds himself in, where he's trying to defend America against all these threats and all of hell itself is unleashed upon him in a single day?"

Christian stories need to start getting more real and personal, dealing with REAL issues as the Bible dictates we should. WE should also show the flaws we humans have, as the Bible is filled with examples of Godly people who fell short (King David for one), the consequences of those actions, and God's grace for it and His strength.

So yah, I've never liked the Christian entertainment industry (say for Michael W. Smith, and Steven Curtis Chapman, but the latter only because of his lyrics).

[Fish and Chips]

My cynical take on the issue comes from the fact that most (but not all) Christian media I've seen tends to be tactlessly obvious and overbearing in its handling, if not downright laughable. I have no problem with a Christian influence in the industry, and I enjoy it when "Secular" Manga and Anime works I enjoy convey Christian ideas or ideals in a positive light, or at least present them as food for thought; to me, this is far more effective and enjoyable than something that could be misconstrued as one step up the ladder from, well, a propaganda machine.

A Christian comedian I saw on a television show described his style of humor as "bar tested, pastor approved." I'd prefer to see something more along those lines than most of our previous Christian endeavors in mainstream media.

[The Doctor]

I think I'll add a bit of something:

If you're like me and your SICK SICK SICK of all these bad efforts: stop complaining and start doing something! (Kicks self)

I had to do that because I'm guilty of the same thing.

Hate BORING Christian movies? Than make some.
Read "Rebel without a crew" by Robert Rodriguez and be sure to read his appendix "The Robert Rodriguez Ten-Minute Film School." (Note: There is some language in this book, and he also writes about his experience selling his body to science to raise money for his first movie...which had to do with certain things regarding the body. Still recommended for filmmakers though) Thanks to new technology, some of the technical stuff he writes about seems outdated, but it's a great start. Than read some technical stuff and start making short movies with what you have at home. A DVR video camera, and whatever editing equipment you can find. It's like Rodriguez says: "Do you go to music school and come out the next Jimi Hendrix? NO! You do it by locking yourself in your closet and playing until your fingers bleed. Don't be lazy!"

Want GREAT, GODLY Christian manga? Start making some on your own.
Want Great GODLY Christian anime? Try doing some shorts!

Are you 23, realized this is something you wanna do, but have no practice and feel it's not worth trying with all these people out there who've been doing it since they were 14?

Well, for the answer to that question, I'll have to ask some other witnesses here to speak out and give their advice.

[Fish and Chips]

Actually, I've been a step ahead of you for about a year or so, my good Doctor. I actually have quite a few ideas locked up in my head for use in such pursuits. I only need to assemble others with the necessary skills and finances to make it happen.

[The Doctor]

Try Rodriguez's Mariachi-style my friend, where CREATIVITY, not MONEY, is used to solve problems.

I'm trying to figure out how it can be applied to anime, but here's an example of his Mariachi-style.

For his breakout movie "El Mariachi", he did everything he could to make it LOOK expensive, when he made it on the cheap. Like for one thing, in a scene in the movie there was a crane shot. In the book he reveals that his "crane shot" was just him standing on top of a ladder with the camera.

[Fish and Chips]

I'd also prefer an entertainment industry that was run by creativity rather than cash deposits, but the truth is that even with clever shots and editing, it still takes a fair bit of capital to get started and fund such a program. He still had to buy that camera.

The trick is to do more with less.

[The Doctor]

LOL actually he DIDN'T buy the camera.

He BORROWED it from some guys he knew.

He didn't have a crew; he did everything himself, including the editing.

He wrote the script, the only thing he didn't do was act in it. He got a bunch of people to volunteer to do it.

Than he sold his body for a science experiment.

In all, El Mariachi only cost $7000, which in Hollywood is unheard of.

[Fish and Chips]

Ha ha! Impressive.

I doubt I'll be able to borrow some one's artistic talents or animation prowess, however.

[The Doctor]

So as not to miss the question, if anyone has advice for people who think they're too old to start drawing or doing anything (specifically the 25 + crowd)

please give your advice and what they can start doing.

[Mave]

This is getting a little off-topic but....

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Quit yapping, do more drawing/creating/writing and MAINTAIN it. So many times have I see projects proposed but rarely do I see anything tangible materializing out of it. There is a lot of short-term passion but if I have to be awfully blunt, very FEW are ready to go for the long haul. A manga/anime series requries a few years of commitment at least and typically asks for some level of regular activity to keep it alive.

I personally think there are enough resources within the forum in the sense of writers/artists but is there anyone who are willing to put in the commitment? Sorry, if this offends anyone but this is the reason I'm not too cynical/critical about Christian publishing's attempts at manga. As it is, I'm already struggling to keep my webmanga commitments running simply because I have to balance another daytime job with my online projects (and luckily, I'm single --- aka no kids yet, thank God ). The only way I can put in pages is by sacrificing certain things (no TV, limited social activities).....It's kinda sad but hey, it has to be done.

Let's put it this way, those in Christian entertainment industry will find that it's really hard to survive in the market (at least, strictly from the secular way of "doing business and making money"). Perhaps that's why some publishing houses are hesitant in jumping into the small otaku market share? I'm guessing that the shoot for the mass marketing strategy is mostly a conservative step towards surviving from a business sense.

Hmm.....I might be wrong in what I've said here. I don't know. Pardon the rambling though; I just had to get that off my chest. Now, I'm gonna shut up and get on drawing those comic pages which are long due (eek).

[Esoteric]

Yes, I agree wholeheartedly. Quit yapping, do more drawing/creating/writing and MAINTAIN it. So many times have I see projects proposed but rarely do I see anything tangible materializing out of it. There is a lot of short-term passion but if I have to be awfully blunt, very FEW are ready to go for the long haul.

You hit the nail on the head. Everyone's got the short term passion, few people finish what they start. This has led to big disappointments for me in the past, and is why one of my personal resolutions is to finish any project that I start. Hand in hand with that goes another resolution never to bite off more than I can chew.

But back on topic... I honestly don't know if 'American made' manga, secular or Christian will ever be a huge market, or if they will ever create titles that I'd want to read, but I do respect them for trying. If these manga fail, at least it won't be because the artists got tired and gave up (as it is with amateurs), but because they simply weren't popular enough to make money. And that's an infinitely better reason.

[ICE-rocks]

Fianlly some Christian manga. (in 8 years I'll have one on the market hopefully ) but theres something I have to say.
the style there using in there manga... it just doesn't look that great. the stories will probaly be cool. but the style... we'll I'll pick them up when they come out (at least maybe one of each) to see how they are.

[Alice]

I'm pleased they're trying, but like some of you, I won't be impressed until I see some great story telling and / or art involved.

That said, I probably won't buy any of these because I haven't bought Shelter of Wings yet, and that's a Christian manga I've been waiting for! (There's another thread about it... somewhere.) After I get that, if I have some spare money lying around, and any of these titles look really great, well, then we'll see.

[Stephen]

*laughs*

I want a dollar everytime someone basicly repeats what Gypsy said in her first post.