Beauty

[Manillien]

I just want to know someone's opinion on this, because I can't figure it out myself, and if I did, it might not be the right opinion I would land at.

Also, if this is a no-no subject, I would ask that you remove this thread as quickly as possible.

Ok, the subject is beauty. We all have an appreciation of things we deem beautiful. What qualifies as beautiful vary from person to person, of course. And we feel pleasure or joy when we see something beautiful, generally.
Now, I find human bodies to be beautiful - I'm sure many people do. The question is, I guess, where does the limit go between a beautiful image and a perverted image? Some images which may be labeled soft-P strikes me as beautiful, but is this the wrong kind of beauty?

I'm married, so I don't want to lust for someone else. But is seeing another woman's body as beautiful the same as lusting for that woman? Is it possible to draw a line between appreciation of the beauty of the body and lust for the body itself?

Just to clarify - I am also referring to images of naked people, if that wasn't clear...

Thanks for any clarifications!

[Momo-P]

Well personally...I think lusting for a naked body and just finding it beautiful are two very different things. It's kind of weird to explain since I believe I know what you're talking about, but...eh.

Basically think of other things you find beautiful. Is the feeling you have for those things the same? Or does it feel the same as when you start lusting for your partner?

If you can't tell the difference I'd just pray over it, but otherwise I don't see why God would hate appreciating our figure. He DID kind of make it that way...the only thing He hates is when we get sick (and you sincerely sound like you're not trying to be).

[Manillien]

Well personally...I think lusting for a naked body and just finding it beautiful are two very different things. It's kind of weird to explain since I believe I know what you're talking about, but...eh.

Yeah, I thought so too, and as you are saying later, i try not to be a sicko. However, I am afraid that this is just a new tactic from my sinful nature to enable me to see pictures of naked girls without feeling guilty. So I agree that there is a distinction, but maybe what I'm asking is whether it is possible to keep this distinction in mind in practice?

If anyone has any experience with keeping this distinction in mind, I would like to hear about it. Also, it would be interesting to hear from both sexes, because I imagine that this probably is a bit different for girls than for boys... or maybe not?

[termyt]

It is largely a matter for your own conscience. There are no easy answers. I do not believe that nudity is the same as pornography. As a matter of fact, some of the "best" examples of pornography I know of don't involve nudity at all while examples of nudity do not illicit a lustful response.

So the question is, "What does viewing naked people do for you?" What is your body's reaction?

[Etoh*the*Greato]

I would draw the line at, "Why are you looking at this image?" Are you looking at it for sexual reasons or for appreciation? Like an art thing?

[Manillien]

I agree with the two of you. I guess the only practical application this newfound insight has, is that I won't turn away the moment I see a naked body. Except on the internet, where such occurences most likely is not art. So, since I never seek out art to appreciate, I guess this has very minimal implications for my regular life. Contrary to what my sinful nature perhaps was hoping for. lol in its face.

I came to think of a different view on this, though: Perhaps the appreciation of a naked body is something to be reserved to marriage? I mean, just because people make art of it, doesn't mean that it's right, right? I'm seeing that this isn't that interesting of a discussion. If you have some thoughts, however, throw them in!

[firestorm]

I came to think of a different view on this, though: Perhaps the appreciation of a naked body is something to be reserved to marriage? I mean, just because people make art of it, doesn't mean that it's right, right? I'm seeing that this isn't that interesting of a discussion. If you have some thoughts, however, throw them in!

In my oppinion, I agree with this for 2 reasons.

#1 is because I myself am weak to the area of beauty in general so I keep away from it at all costs. I believe that even looking at it for art reason can cause lust. I don't want to do that.

#2 Is is something you think your wife would be okay with. Think about it from her perspective, how would you feel her looking at another guys body, be it art or other wise. You would also have to figure how she would act if she saw you. Most women I know would probably feel like they are not good enough or feel like they can't compare to the women their husbands look at, even for an art reason. Most would feel betrayed. some might even try altering their look or body to keep you from that (trust me I believe I heard of a lady that did that on the radio.) You've got to think from your wife's perspective too. Your together your whole life, so this must be a dual effort to come up with a decision on whether to do that or not. My oppinion is if it's something that you would have to keep away from your wife so she won't get angry, then is it something that is really right?(not saying you are just saying in general.) Does she know of view on this?

I just don't believe that people can truly be one flesh if they are looking to other places period, whether for lust or not. It causes to much strife in relationships. Still again, that's my oppinion take it how you want it.

[EricTheFred]

One of my favorite farewell blessings is a Navajo one that translates as "Walk in beauty."

Beauty is meant as one of the legs upon which our mental well-being rests. Seeing beauty in the world around us helps us appreciate our presence in it. Sadly, we limit the amount of beauty we see in this world to a few items and miss the rest.

God meant for beautiful women to be beautiful (meaning the ones we do credit as beautiful.) He meant for the rest of us to be beautiful, each in our fashion, as well. And he meant for all of us to see all of the beauty around us.

The sin is not seeing a beautiful woman and appreciating her. Frankly, she is part of God's creation that you are expected to rejoice in. The sin is failing to see the beauty in everyone else. Limiting ourselves to noiticing the sexually stimulating people only is what 'lusting after' and 'coveting' are about. If you saw the beauty of everyone around you, you wouldn't have time to obsess over the few we call beautiful now. It's my theory that exhortations in the Bible to christian women not to doll themselves up are meant not for them to hide themselves, but for them to not try to draw attention away from their fellow christians and the rest of the world. It was an exhortation toward meekness, not prudeness.

So, in a way, yes you are talking about a sin. But the sin isn't the one you realize.

My wife, from the very first years of our marriage, has had a weird approach to pretty girls in the presence of her husband. She points them out to me.

At first, I thought it was some strange test she was trying on me. Later, I realized she just likes being able to trust me. (So much so, that I got a brand new swimsuit calendar from her every year until a couple years after my eldest came into the world, and we agreed that was a weird signal to be sending him.) I've never violated that trust, and I don't plan to. The girls around me only get a glance or so from me anyway, because frankly, for more than twenty years I've had a beautiful wife and I want to keep it that way.

[Manillien]

Thanks for good thoughts. Firestorm, I definitely see your point. I was thinking about how I would feel if my wife was looking at other guys' bodies, and I wouldn't be very happy - but then a special case came to mind: if she's looking at e.g. the statue of David by Michelangelo and saying to herself: God truly made us beautiful beings. I wouldn't be hurt by that. However, that isn't to say that my wife would feel the same way, so I'll have to talk with her about this anyway.

Eric: I also see your point in not recognising the beauty of all people. After becoming a Christian, in periods I have been able to really see this beauty, other times not. It's something I can get better at. And your interpretation of Paul's exhortation is also interesting - I have always thought of it as "Don't dress up, because it's your faith you should take pride in, not your clothes or fashion sense" - BTW, this exhortation is LARGELY ignored in my congregation, at least - it's like every meeting is a fashion show. It's kind of sad.

Again, thanks for your words...

[fairyprincess90]

ok ok. I am a woman here. I understand what you mean though finding the human body as beautiful. Just like we admire a beautiful sunset or a beautiful scenery we can admire a beautiful person. Problem is here, I don't think nudity is right. Whether art, or not art. True...some art doesn't have suggestive poses and it's "beautiful"...but I believe the naked body was meant for two people. Those two people, the person who owns the body and their wife/husband. I mean obviously a parent is going to see their naked child when they have to give it a bath...but you understand what I mean?

I admire beautiful people...like their face and stuff. But, the naked body is something so beautiful it shouldn't be flaunted. In porn, in art, anywhere.

I don't know if I'm making sense.

Does anyone understand what I'm trying to say? That a naked body is too beautiful to be admired by many people? I admire many people's faces and features (for example I admire my boyfriends arms and the shape and detail. I admire my dad's jaw-line. I admire my friends beautiful black hair.) So there is nothing wrong with admiring someone's beauty...unless you're admiring their naked body. Because the naked body is something so beautiful it shouldn't be open and revealed for people to admire because soon enough it will take away the beauty of it. Plus it is something special that should only be shared between a married couple and I believe that's how God wanted it.

I don't think you are intentionally lusting or doing anything wrong. So I'm not condemning you. I think you are innocently admiring beauty.

But, I'd sure be mad if my boyfriend was looking at other women's bodies. Even if it wasn't in a lustful way. I want him to think I am the most beautiful and not need to look at anyone else for beauty to admire. So go ahead and admire your wife's body and beauty all you want. There is nothing wrong with that. =]

I hope I made sense. =]