Bleach Speculation (Chapters 300+)

[ich1990]

i enjoyed seeing all the new kido and it is gunna be ovious yamamoto is gunna kill the chimara

Yes, but why didn't he just pop out and shred all the lower levels right at the beginning? Instead he waits for a couple of his own troops to be seriously wounded. As far as I can tell, killing the arrancar would have done nothing to diminish his fighting capabilities for the next battle.

Also, why are Kira and #86 still getting screen time? Didn't they already get their fights a few chapters ago?

At least we have multiple VS multiple fights instead of the usual one on one (even if it only means a steady stream of saved-at-the-last-minute-by-someone-slightly-more-powerful-than-me battles).

[Garjzla]

Yes, but why didn't he just pop out and shred all the lower levels right at the beginning? Instead he waits for a couple of his own troops to be seriously wounded. As far as I can tell, killing the arrancar would have done nothing to diminish his fighting capabilities for the next battle.

Also, why are Kira and #86 still getting screen time? Didn't they already get their fights a few chapters ago?

At least we have multiple VS multiple fights instead of the usual one on one (even if it only means a steady stream of saved-at-the-last-minute-by-someone-slightly-more-powerful-than-me battles).

yeah i know what you mean....i guess it is more dramatic for him to come in late.....but i feel like doing this::comp: when the chapters are the as you said "steady stream of saved-at-the-last-minute-by-someone-slightly-more-powerful-than-me battles" because that is too predictable

the only other reason would be for yamaoto to come late is to show that the "kids" really arnt that strong

lastly i really am happy that kira and 86 guy got more show time, becuase they are pritty cool, but i am sad because we still have not seen any of 86's zanpaktu's special abilities....

i do not know about you but i would rather have another charecter fight Allon than yamaoto.....

[Doubleshadow]

Yes, but why didn't he just pop out and shred all the lower levels right at the beginning? Instead he waits for a couple of his own troops to be seriously wounded. As far as I can tell, killing the arrancar would have done nothing to diminish his fighting capabilities for the next battle.

Leadership. You have to trust your troops to do their job, and not even the most skilled commander can do everything himself. He also may be hiding any new skills and storing up all his energy for the wily Aizen.

Also, why are Kira and #86 still getting screen time? Didn't they already get their fights a few chapters ago?

I'm not complaining, but why is it that Shunsui goes into fights largely to get beat on?

At least we have multiple VS multiple fights instead of the usual one on one (even if it only means a steady stream of saved-at-the-last-minute-by-someone-slightly-more-powerful-than-me battles).

Agreed. I was annoyed that the two female Shinigami had to be rescued, especially after getting to see Momo recovering from her psychological wounds, but then the guys had to be rescued, so I feel somewhat vindicated.

[uc pseudonym]

Yes, but why didn't he just pop out and shred all the lower levels right at the beginning? Instead he waits for a couple of his own troops to be seriously wounded. As far as I can tell, killing the arrancar would have done nothing to diminish his fighting capabilities for the next battle.

See, this is where shonen could be greatly aided by including real strategy. I think a potential legitimate reason is that he needs to conserve power for the larger battles (presuming that attacking consumes some small part of his energy). Lesser fighters would be worthless against the stronger opponents, but they can contribute against the initial waves. With so many characters of varying strengths, Bleach has a lot of potential for this kind of thing.

Still, the ideal strategy would be to let the subordinates fight until they are just about to get injured, then snipe their opponents. Or perhaps have one medium-level fighter reserved explicitly for this purpose. Minimal energy use as well as minimal injuries.

Agreed. I was annoyed that the two female Shinigami had to be rescued, especially after getting to see Momo recovering from her psychological wounds, but then the guys had to be rescued, so I feel somewhat vindicated.

Agreed.

[ich1990]

i do not know about you but i would rather have another charecter fight Allon than yamaoto.....

Considering that we are almost undoubtedly going to see him fight Aizen, any of the following would have been better:

Isshin Kurosaki
Ryū]Leadership. You have to trust your troops to do their job, and not even the most skilled commander can do everything himself. He also may be hiding any new skills and storing up all his energy for the wily Aizen.[/QUOTE]

That could be a reason for holding back, but have we seen any indication that fighting uses up spiritual pressure? Off the bat, I can not think of a case were someone has used up so much of their energy that their fighting skills were diminished. Also, I doubt Yamamoto would need to use any of his "hidden skills" in order to defeat low class arrancar. Battle fatigue for someone of his caliber would be almost nil.

See, this is where shonen could be greatly aided by including real strategy. I think a potential legitimate reason is that he needs to conserve power for the larger battles (presuming that attacking consumes some small part of his energy). Lesser fighters would be worthless against the stronger opponents, but they can contribute against the initial waves. With so many characters of varying strengths, Bleach has a lot of potential for this kind of thing.

That would be ideal. In fact, it sort of reminds me of a book I read not too long ago.

Still, the ideal strategy would be to let the subordinates fight until they are just about to get injured, then snipe their opponents. Or perhaps have one medium-level fighter reserved explicitly for this purpose. Minimal energy use as well as minimal injuries.

Plus combat experience. If energy consumption is not a factor, then experience is the biggest benefit of allowing low class shinigami to fight. This experience is not, however, worth sacrificing their lives (which could have easily happened in Matsumoto's case). Yamamoto was a little slow to step in and help, in my opinion.

[Garjzla]

Yamamoto was a little slow to step in and help, in my opinion.

yeah i agree it was the "last second" save, and that is kid of pissing me off, becuase that is what bleach is turning into, look at how the captains saved everyone in Hueco Mundo

also how can ichigo beat Aizen when he could not even beat the 5th espada?

i just hope he will learn a new move or something, or it is the o darn my getsuga tensho did not work lets try it again, then again, then again...o wow i somehow won!

lastly how could of ichigo beaten Captain Zaraki, and Kuchki with out them letting him win, because when they were "serious" they easily defeated the espada they were fighting.....just a thought

[Fish and Chips]

Any of the Vizard

Who are still en route to the scene anyway after the Turn Back The Pendulum sub-arc.

also how can ichigo beat Aizen when he could not even beat the 5th espada?

i just hope he will learn a new move or something

Needs more power ups.

I'm not that fond of the idea of Ichigo vs. Aizen, though that's probably how things are going to play out. I don't think Ichigo has enough invested in it, and we've already demonstrated Aizen is several levels above him. Yes, I know there's hollow training and spiritual pressure build up and et cetera, but I don't find that very satisfying. Aizen stopped Ichigo's sword with his finger. And if Zaraki knows what he's talking about with his mechanics of spiritual pressure business, that scene told us more than we probably wanted to know. There is no way Ichigo's stepped up sufficiently to pose any serious problem to Aizen, who hasn't even needed to draw his bankai yet.

But of course, he will. Thank you Shounen Protagonist.

Though conceivably, if Aizen can't even kill Momo Hinamori right, I may be overestimating him.

[Doubleshadow]

Who are still en route to the scene anyway after the Turn Back The Pendulum sub-arc.

They're stuck on the freeway.

Seriously, now that I think about it, how long does it take to get from point A to point B?

[Garjzla]

Aizen stopped Ichigo's sword with his finger. And if Zaraki knows what he's talking about with his mechanics of spiritual pressure business, that scene told us more than we probably wanted to know. There is no way Ichigo's stepped up sufficiently to pose any serious problem to Aizen, who hasn't even needed to draw his bankai yet.

But of course, he will. Thank you Shounen Protagonist.

Though conceivably, if Aizen can't even kill Momo Hinamori right, I may be overestimating him.

him stopping the sword could have been accomplished by his "ultimate hypnosis"
by having ichigo think that aizen was there and that he was that powerfull to stop it when he was really elsewhere to punch him...but i could just be reading into it to much

also i do not think it is possible to beat aizen due to his zanpaktu's ability....and how could it get anymore cheaper? his bankai is probally really cheap.

The only one who i think is going to be able to defeat Aizen would be Tousen, becasue he is blind and that then means he is uneffected by Aizen's zanpaktu, and that could be the reason why Aizen recruited him on his side.....just an idea...also Aizen could have curropted his idea of "justice" that he talks about so when Ichigo comes in he might uncurropt it and then Tousen will pin down Aizen then ichigo will be able to do the finishing blow

or maybe his hollow half is uneffected by illusions or something so with that considered he might learn "total hollow transformation" and take the form of that sick hollow he was when he was battling the inner hollow. Again just a thought and a bit of a wish

[ich1990]

lastly how could of ichigo beaten Captain Zaraki, and Kuchki with out them letting him win, because when they were "serious" they easily defeated the espada they were fighting.....just a thought

Actually, I asked nearly the same question earlier in this thread, here is UC's explanation:

As a sidethought, how did the captains get so powerful? Ichigo won against Zaraki without even using his bankai, yet Zaraki can stand up to Nnoitora without a problem? What am I missing?

Actually, I think there might be a logical answer to this. Bear with me for a moment.

During the Soul Society arc, Ichigo has a series of serious fights: Ikkaku, Renji, Zaraki, Byakuya. Since then, we've learned that Renji was only a step away from achieving Bankai and Ikkaku already had it. With this in mind, it seems to me that all of his opponents were at the highest level of power. Thus, Ichigo didn't really get all that much stronger during the arc, other than the major advantage of a Bankai.

Then also consider that he won the last two fights only with an additional advantage. In the case of Zaraki, Zangetsu apparently loaned him power - not sure how that works, but that's the language they use. With Byakuya his Hollow manifested for a moment and prevented him from losing. Thus you could argue that Ichigo actually wasn't as strong as either of them, despite his victories.

Since then, Ichigo has gotten a significant reiatsu boost with his Vaizard technique, but other than that he hasn't really improved. So one could argue that he's really just around the general Captain level, not significantly above it. Furthermore, though other Captains might not have Ichigo's reiatsu, they do have skill and experience that he lacks. So I can see them being able to fight with the current antagonists.

[uc pseudonym]

Aizen stopped Ichigo's sword with his finger. And if Zaraki knows what he's talking about with his mechanics of spiritual pressure business, that scene told us more than we probably wanted to know.

I'm glad there's someone else who hasn't forgotten this. Also, this scene is the only one where I prefer the anime over the manga: Aizen stops Ichigo's annoying fight song.

Though conceivably, if Aizen can't even kill Momo Hinamori right, I may be overestimating him.

Though in this case I think Aizen's blade was stopped by a substance called Fan Outrage. Because no one dies in Bleach.

They're stuck on the freeway.

Seriously, now that I think about it, how long does it take to get from point A to point B?

My answer was going to be that they are walking there in slow motion. So their clothes move behind them in a cool way and all that. It will take them a while.

him stopping the sword could have been accomplished by his "ultimate hypnosis"

I've thought of that as well, but I don't think this is the case. When Aizen has used his powers it is usually pretty obvious (when defeating Komamura, for example). Also, note that Ichigo did stop for whatever reason - Aizen hasn't ever demonstrated the ability to utterly control someone. Really, being able to control all five senses should be unstoppable. Theoretically you could even kill someone due via shock from pain.

Also, Ichigo had never seen him release his Shikai, which you will recall was a necessary condition. I just wanted to go into the tangent about how Aizen's ability should be cooler than it actually is.

[Doubleshadow]

I'm glad there's someone else who hasn't forgotten this. Also, this scene is the only one where I prefer the anime over the manga: Aizen stops Ichigo's annoying fight song.

Although probably everyone has seen it-

Link

[Garjzla]

I've thought of that as well, but I don't think this is the case. When Aizen has used his powers it is usually pretty obvious (when defeating Komamura, for example). Also, note that Ichigo did stop for whatever reason - Aizen hasn't ever demonstrated the ability to utterly control someone. Really, being able to control all five senses should be unstoppable. Theoretically you could even kill someone due via shock from pain.

yeah but he could have seen it when aizen used it on Komamura, otherwise how could he have seen Aizen "shatter" yeah and i was thinking about that as well....i dunno but Aizen is basically God modding and it is pissing me off...

[Ingemar]

Though in this case I think Aizen's blade was stopped by a substance called Fan Outrage. Because no one dies in Bleach.

I was hoping someone wouldn't state the obvious, but there you have it. I'm also sorely tempted to start a "If anyone actually died in Bleach who would you want dead*" thread but I think I'll abstain.







[SIZE="1"]*Ichigo, Ikkaku, Mayuri, Renji, Hitsugaya and Hinamori. In case you were curious.[/SIZE]

[Garjzla]

I was hoping someone wouldn't state the obvious, but there you have it. I'm also sorely tempted to start a "If anyone actually died in Bleach who would you want dead*" thread but I think I'll abstain.







[SIZE="1"]*Ichigo, Ikkaku, Mayuri, Renji, Hitsugaya and Hinamori. In case you were curious.[/SIZE]

no you should start it and i would want ichigo dead...

[Doubleshadow]

More cannon fodder is immolated.

Next...

[ich1990]

More cannon fodder is immolated.

Next...

Were you referring to this chapter specifically or the last three volumes?

Also, I find it sad that Yamamoto actually drew his sword to kill that beast/thing.

[Mave]

Agreed. I was annoyed that the two female Shinigami had to be rescued, especially after getting to see Momo recovering from her psychological wounds, but then the guys had to be rescued, so I feel somewhat vindicated.

I have to quote this: Agreed.

Characters who I would like dead in Bleach poll: Maybe Mayuri?

Maybe we could say starring Bleach characters are not allowed to die during the series. Significant but dead characters were already dead to begin with and we're only allowed a slight glimpse of them such as Kuchiki's wife & Ichigo's mum.

Maybe there's an exception with Kaion Shiba but hey......I only counted 3 characters with one hand whom I can remember is offiicially "dead." Did I miss out anyone?

[Garjzla]

talk about poop this chapter was stupid a whole bunch of nothing.....i just want some good chapters...

[uc pseudonym]

This was a pointless chapter. The series has already established that Yamamoto's power is superlative. If we need a reminder, well, he just one-shotted a guy a few pages ago. In any case, he'll presumably be fighting some other characters shortly, so there was no need to drag out this battle because we'll get a demonstration soon.

Have I ever mentioned in this thread how much I dislike the ending text in Shonen Jump? It almost never adds anything and if often detracts. In this case, "felled by a single blaze" just irritated me, because it wasn't exactly a single attack. It was an entire chapter of a few attacks.

[Ingemar]

Maybe we could say starring Bleach characters are not allowed to die during the series. Significant but dead characters were already dead to begin with and we're only allowed a slight glimpse of them such as Kuchiki's wife & Ichigo's mum.

Maybe there's an exception with Kaion Shiba but hey......I only counted 3 characters with one hand whom I can remember is offiicially "dead." Did I miss out anyone?

I don't think so, but you reinforced the trend that death in Bleach is entirely a priori. In a series about death gods, people. Seriously.

[Mave]

[Doubleshadow]

Somebody mislabeled the y-axis. -2

I can understand wanting to please the fan base, but knowing the characters won't actually die takes a bit of the much hyped danger out of it.

[uc pseudonym]

I can understand wanting to please the fan base, but knowing the characters won't actually die takes a bit of the much hyped danger out of it.

You would think so. I did, until I was reading a thread after the chapter in which Matsumoto gets a chunk of her side torn out. It was from a moderately jaded forum and everyone still went crazy over it. Weeping and gnashing of teeth like I'd expect to see about the death of a (real life) world leader.

[Mave]

Somebody mislabeled the y-axis. -2

Mave's career in creating graphs crumbles along with the world's economy. No more LOLgraphs. XD

I can understand wanting to please the fan base, but knowing the characters won't actually die takes a bit of the much hyped danger out of it.

If you can't kill your characters, you can at least torture and completely maim them.

[Garjzla]

You would think so. I did, until I was reading a thread after the chapter in which Matsumoto gets a chunk of her side torn out. It was from a moderately jaded forum and everyone still went crazy over it. Weeping and gnashing of teeth like I'd expect to see about the death of a (real life) world leader.

that is the typical otaku for you...

as for me i did not even care i knew she would not die...lol:lol:

[uc pseudonym]

Bleach 339: Because apparently Halibel's outfit didn't bare enough before.

Personally, I think this is balanced by the points she gets for having an awesome bone jaw and for (hopefully) taking out Hitsugaya. But that's just me.

In any case, we now know for sure about the rankings of the top three. Plenty of people were right about Stark being Primera, but I had guessed the other two switched. Normally I'd say it doesn't matter, at least we'll get some cool fights... but now it looks like we're going back to Ichigo. Seriously, Kubo Tite? Seriously?

[Fish and Chips]

Normally I'd say it doesn't matter, at least we'll get some cool fights... but now it looks like we're going back to Ichigo. Seriously, Kubo Tite? Seriously?

You say that like he's never pulled this only the entirety of the Soul Society arc.

[Doubleshadow]

Geez, what is this fan service season in Shounen Jump?

Orihime, Matsumoto, Nel, Halibel; these chicks could put a chiropractors kids through college.

Back to Ichigo? Ah, good. I wanted to watch him get beat on some more.

[GeneD]

Okay, I've caught up on the last few chapters and the discussion.

At the moment I'm slightly pleased we're going back to Ichigo since all the little captains and co. are irritating me a bit.

Matsumoto getting her side carved out would have made a bigger impact on me if I believed that she was in any sort of actual danger but I'm fairly convinced she'll be fine. This sort of thing is really muting my interest in the series at the moment.

Did I miss out anyone?

Ishida's Grandfather is another dead-before-series character.

Technically all Soul Society members have also died in the real world, so do they count as dead-before-series?

Anyway, my preferred ending right now would be Aizen kicking everyone's but (including some of the arrancar etc) and ending up as the evil overlord.