Anti piracy war declared on scanlation sites by English/Japanese manga companies

[Yamamaya]

[quote]MULTI-NATIONAL MANGA ANTI-PIRACY COALITION FORMED

San Francisco, CA, June 8, 2010 – Today a coalition of Japanese and U.S. publishers announced a coordinated effort to combat a rampant and growing problem of internet piracy plaguing the manga industry. “Scanlation,â€

[Nate]

How...ORWELLIAN.

[Cognitive Gear]

It'll be interesting to see how this effects sales, if at all.

[Yamamaya]

Piracy is an ancient profession. They will not win against it.

Actually I think the only thing they can do is send a cease and desist letter really. They have to sue in order to really defeat them and that takes a lot of cash. There might be other methods that I don't know of.

Although piracy now is more of a reaction than an actual money making spree of arrrrr pirates.

It probably won't help their sales at all cognitive. This isn't going to make people buy more manga. They'll either get irritated and stop buying manga or just find other websites to read it from.

[Nate]

It won't affect sales. It's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

If sales go up, they say "Ah ha! See, scanlation DID hurt our sales!" This is the scenario that won't happen, because scanlations are not hurting sales.

If sales go down or stay the same, they say "BAAAAAAAAWWWWWW! There's still torrenting and underground scan sites that are hurting our profits!"

Like I said, lose-lose. There is no good side to this. Fans get screwed either way.

[Yamamaya]

It won't affect sales. It's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

If sales go up, they say "Ah ha! See, scanlation DID hurt our sales!" This is the scenario that won't happen, because scanlations are not hurting sales.

If sales go down or stay the same, they say "BAAAAAAAAWWWWWW! There's still torrenting and underground scan sites that are hurting our profits!"

Like I said, lose-lose. There is no good side to this. Fans get screwed either way.

All it really does is make the manga companies look like whiners.
Piracy is really just a fact these days. When you consider the fact that pretty much every single book, song, movie, etc. can be found online then you're mostly fighting an uphill battle.

The proper response IMHO is to improve your own product's quality or make it easier to acquire.

It is a lose lose really.

[blkmage]

I'm surprised it took so long before they went after aggregators. The big problem with aggregators is not that they make it easy to look for stuff, but that they are making money off of ad impressions and essentially benefiting from illicit activity. Unlike taking action against fansubbers or scanlators, I'm ambivalent on taking down aggregators. Even a large chunk of scanlation groups despise aggregators for this very reason.

Secondly, it won't affect sales because people who won't take the effort to track down and download a rar file won't take the effort (and expense) to buy a book anyway.

[Cognitive Gear]

The proper response IMHO is to improve your own product's quality or make it easier to acquire.

It is a lose lose really.

The only situation in which we all win is if the manga companies start hosting translated manga online in an ad supported form. They've already started doing it with anime, and I imagine that such a thing would be easier and more affordable to do with manga.

[Nate]

To be honest I'm fine with them taking down scanlators and uploaders...MOSTLY. I mean there is a series I read that will never be released in America so scans are the only way for me to read it. So if they crack down on that, I'll be really upset.

However, the fact is they're not going after scanners and uploaders. They're going to go after the people viewing it, which isn't right at all. :\

[ChristianKitsune]

WOW!
I was just going to post a thread about how OneManga is closing down.. O_o; that's INTENSE.

I really wonder how this will affect fans worldwide...I know I got into a lot of manga, (that I later purchased).

I wonder if Viz, and other companies will do something like Crunchyroll? Where they will have adds and things for people to read their manga properties? That would be an intelligent way to fix this problem.. I'd watch a few adds if I could read manga online! \o.o/

[LadyRushia]

There could easily be a legal manga hosting site. The same people translating scans illegally would probably translate for a site like that, so fans would be able to keep up with Japan without piracy being an issue.

[Yamamaya]

[quote="ChristianKitsune (post: 1411436)"]WOW!
I was just going to post a thread about how OneManga is closing down.. O_o]

That idea has been presented and even a few of the old scanlation websites are trying to suggest the idea to Viz and such.

It probably won't affect fans that much. Ten scan sites may fall but others will rise to take their place and there will always be downloads and torrents. It might make it slightly harder to get manga but still.

Hellsing has officially been pulled from a great deal of websites but a lot of unnoticed but easy to acsess(my spelling might suck) scan websites still have it available.

I agree strongly with a crunchyroll type manga website. But Japanese publishers are loath to even have their manga available for Kindle...

[ChristianKitsune]

EDIT: Sorry accidently double posted.

[blkmage]

To be honest I'm fine with them taking down scanlators and uploaders...MOSTLY. I mean there is a series I read that will never be released in America so scans are the only way for me to read it. So if they crack down on that, I'll be really upset.

However, the fact is they're not going after scanners and uploaders. They're going to go after the people viewing it, which isn't right at all. :\

What, how are they going after the people viewing it? This isn't an RIAA situation.

They aren't going after scanlators, presumably because it's not cost effective and it does serve a function for the community.

Instead, they are going after the largest source of people most likely not to buy anything anyway and people who are making money off of their properties.

[Yamamaya]

What, how are they going after the people viewing it? This isn't an RIAA situation.

They aren't going after scanlators, presumably because it's not cost effective and it does serve a function for the community.

Instead, they are going after the largest source of people most likely not to buy anything anyway and people who are making money off of their properties.

Yep.

Basically they're going after the big websites that host the scans such as onemanga and also make money off of ads.

[blkmage]

There could easily be a legal manga hosting site. The same people translating scans illegally would probably translate for a site like that, so fans would be able to keep up with Japan without piracy being an issue.

It's a fairly simple concept and is actually a lot lighter on costs than a video streaming site like Crunchyroll. The big barrier is the Japanese corporate/publisher mistrust of the Internet. You can see that in the beginnings of Crunchyroll too. The only reason Crunchyroll gained the momentum it needed was because Studio Gonzo was in dire straits financially and was desperate for anything that might give them a boost, so they put all their shows on Crunchyroll. Until you see large publishers jumping on board, a legal manga will likely only serve extremely niche titles.

[ChristianKitsune]

I foresee onemanga doing something like this:
They will probably just change their name to something else, like "One1manga.com" or something like that... XD

[Cognitive Gear]

Marvel and DC have had some good success with their subscription based online comic viewers. You get unlimited access for 5-10$ a month, and they always have some comics online to view for free.

But the largest barrier will probably be the Japanese publishers. From what I understand, they don't like anything being put on the internet in any way.

EDIT:

It's a fairly simple concept and is actually a lot lighter on costs than a video streaming site like Crunchyroll. The big barrier is the Japanese corporate/publisher mistrust of the Internet. You can see that in the beginnings of Crunchyroll too. The only reason Crunchyroll gained the momentum it needed was because Studio Gonzo was in dire straits financially and was desperate for anything that might give them a boost, so they put all their shows on Crunchyroll. Until you see large publishers jumping on board, a legal manga will likely only serve extremely niche titles.

blkmage said it better than I did. XD

[Yamamaya]

^Although you can still easily find scans of Marvel and DC comics online. But the legal alternative still works quite well.

It seems pretty much only the dojin artists have any real trust in the internet and in the fandom.

That's the problem with old business models. You will inevitably be left in the dust.

[Cloud500]

I don't know how successful this will be, but I do think it's good that the publishers are cracking down on the illegal scanlation websites. There are some obscure titles that will probably never be licensed and for non-Japanese speaking readers, scans are the only way of reading them; they could still import the manga and read along with the scans so at least they're still supporting the authors/publishers. However, the majority of titles that people download are ones that are already licensed and readily available in the U.S. But for some reason, people just can't wait several months to read certain manga legally. There are some people who read scans, but buy the manga legally when it's released here, but most people don't do that. I know some publishers are somewhat behind in the releases of some series, but that doesn't really excuse piracy. People just have to have stuff when they want it because it's their "right." A lot of NA anime licensors are doing simulcasts of certain shows, but people still fansub them because they can't wait three whole days (how evil! ).

I know the economy isn't great, but that doesn't make it okay to steal things.

[Yamamaya]

I know the economy isn't great, but that doesn't make it okay to steal things.

Scanlations are copy right violations hence they fall under civil law. It's not considered criminal law.

If some kid stole several books from a book store that would be considered stealing.

However let's say that same kid bought a bike and then made 15 copies of the bike and lent them to his friends. That would be copy right violation but not the same as stealing the bike from the store.

/definition rant over

[MasterDias]

Interestingly, Square-Enix just announced a digital manga store for North America and France, so all the publishers aren't fully oblivious to the situation. I guess we will see how successful they are.

[Cloud500]

Scanlations are copy right violations hence they fall under civil law. It's not considered criminal law.

If some kid stole several books from a book store that would be considered stealing.

However let's say that same kid bought a bike and then made 15 copies of the bike and lent them to his friends. That would be copy right violation but not the same as stealing the bike from the store.

/definition rant over

Okay, but either way, it's still wrong. The creator and publishers aren't getting any money this way.

[CrimsonRyu17]

Eh. I'm fine with them cracking down on the big ad-leeching sites but scanlations as a whole? No.

I honestly will not buy any manga unless I find it worth buying and I bet a lot of people think this way too considering the economy and all. I can't find out if it's any good if I can't read a volume or two if it's not available and I am not driving nearly 2+ hours to the nearest Barnes & Noble just to try something that may not even be there.

If it weren't for the minor scanlator groups, I wouldn't be reading Tsukihime or reading and buying Pandora Hearts. I wouldn't be reading anything because I just don't have the money to go buying random manga books just to see if I may like it.

R1 companies and Japanese companies just really need to change their mindset and realize that if they'd quit hoarding their series out of fear of the evil scanlators and let people read some previews more than 3 pages, they'd probably get more people reading their stuff and buying it.

Oh, and don't release it terribly like Yen Press did with Spice & Wolf. I'm still not buying it even though I really want to read the story. I'd rather go read a translation, buy the book from Japan and support the author directly instead of that terrible cover idea of "let's make it look like Twilight so teens will think it's a trashy romance novel instead of an actual good story". There's no way I'd support that but I still want to support S&W.

[blkmage]

In defense of Yen Press, they did change their cover scheme for Spice and Wolf volume 2 and onward. And the translation is far better than the one that was at Baka-Tsuki. So at the very least, they are open and responsive to change, even when they don't need to be, and for that, I was quite willing to buy it even with the awful cover (although I did get one with the animu-looking dust cover by surprise). So yeah, I really like Yen Press, even if they made a mistake.

I actually heard about Square-Enix's store earlier today and I believe the consensus on it was to see the pricing and stuff on it. Other than paranoia towards new technologies, the other thing that Japanese companies like to do with digital distribution is ridiculous pricing schemes (LOL XAM'D).

[CrimsonRyu17]

In defense of Yen Press, they did change their cover scheme for Spice and Wolf volume 2 and onward. And the translation is far better than the one that was at Baka-Tsuki. So at the very least, they are open and responsive to change, even when they don't need to be, and for that, I was quite willing to buy it even with the awful cover (although I did get one with the animu-looking dust cover by surprise). So yeah, I really like Yen Press, even if they made a mistake.

I just checked up on this as I heard nothing about it. I'm glad they changed and made it so the dust cover is their photosho-graph cover (LOL LOOKIT THE TAIL) and I don't have to worry about my mom seeing some naked wolf girl on the cover if the jacket slips off. If they re-release the first volume this way then I'll fully forgive them.

Other than paranoia towards new technologies, the other thing that Japanese companies like to do with digital distribution is ridiculous pricing schemes (LOL XAM'D).

How bout dem $50 for four episodes gaiz!

[Yamamaya]

I bought the notorious Vol 1 of Spice and Wolf. To this day I try to hide the cover from others when I'm reading it.

However Vol 2 does have the original art underneath the photoshop dust cover(which isn't scandalous but I prefer the manga style art).

[blkmage]

I bought my S&W 1 from RightStuf and forgot about the dust cover so I was consigned to my fate. I opened the box expecting naked lady to be smiling creepily at me, but to my delight, it was classy Horo.

But yeah, I forgot that they made two improvements to the subsequent covers, which is they switched the positions of the dust cover and cover art and the new photographic covers can be displayed in public without bringing shame to you!

I do find it interesting that they decided to keep Touko on the cover of Bungaku Shoujo vol. 1. Also, the Haruhi novel covers are fantastic.

[mechana2015]

I honestly wonder if this is a sort of advanced strike before they start handling manga through their own sites (and maybe Squenix jumped the gun a bit).

[airichan623]

I honestly wonder if this is a sort of advanced strike before they start handling manga through their own sites (and maybe Squenix jumped the gun a bit).

Actually, Viz HAS made this decision: on the shonen jump website, especially Naruto, the entire series up to the current American monthly magazine release is up on their site.

But I was extremely shocked to see that OneManga is shutting down. But I say, good job to them: way to comply to the law. I applaud you, though I mourn you.