Writing tips again... sort of

[Kerusso]

Hey, guys, me again. And yes, it's yet another writing tips thread... but a little different this time around.

http://dizzcity.com/2010/01/21/christian-manga-the-good-the-bad-and-the-okay/

The above link is what prompted this one. So what I'm asking for is advice specific to this particular issue listed in this article. How would you deal with this?

[ABlipinTime]

Advice? I guess I missed the other threads - Did you write the article?

If what's said in it is true concerning the manga, I'd agree: I think Christian labels are slapped on too many things, e.g. rock music (or any music for that matter).

If you're asking for advice about the writing style and presentation, it seems fine. You're trying to get a point across. The point was made. For the critical thinker, it might be nice to have specific examples of things, but as I think about it, that might be rather difficult to present, especially succinctly or without spoiling things for those who actually want to go out and read it.

Style points? - Grammar 9/10. Persuasiveness... meh, 3/10. Why do I say that? - Specific phrases like "AND IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK" throw cold water in people's face. Furthermore, saying "you" frequently at the beginning of a sentence seems like a command, and unless your readers are manga artists looking for advice, most likely, the tiny rebellious nature within them is going to say "No".

Incidentally, it reminds me of a little tip when speaking Japanese: Saying "you" frequently much less at all makes the speaker sound like they are accusing someone. Saying "you" more than once can be offensive. Someone correct me if I've been misinformed.

[Kerusso]

Oh, whoops. I think I didn't make myself clear. I didn't write the article, and I'm not asking for a review of said article. It's just that the page presented an issue that's important not just to Christian writers, but anyone in the entertainment biz: how do we integrate Christian themes without dragging down the work, or vice versa?

[FllMtl Novelist]

I'm Christian, but I don't write for the Christian Fiction market. And that's actually good, because I don't read the Christian Fiction market--I read YA fantasy, sci-fi, and other genres. I don't think I've ever, ever picked up a Christian Fiction book (unless Narnia counts, and that I picked up because it was fantasy). It doesn't appeal, since I get the impression magic, darker heroes, truly awesome villains, harsh violence, and anything too unorthodox are forbidden.

And I don't read fiction for the message the author may or may not be leaving. I'm reading for the story and characters. If I find a positive message in a good book, that's fantastic. I will love that book forever. (E.g., Mr. Monster. <3 <3 <3) But since there is no way for me to guarantee a book I'm about to read will have both a good message and good story and characters, I need to make a choice. And I will always choose a great story with a questionable message over a dreadful story with a profound message.

In harmony with sage writing advice, I write books I would read, which means for me a good story comes first. If I figure out a good message to subtly weave into my work, awesome. But my first focus will always be the story, because if you have a lame story, nobody will care what you want to say, profound or not.

I'm probably not the best to give advice, but if you intend to write clearly Christian fiction, I suggest you look at what you read, and figure out what you look at first. If given the choice between being entertained or deeply moved, which do you choose? If entertainment, start with story, since that's what's more important to you. If you prefer to be deeply moved, figure out what you want to say first, and work from there.

Also, they say your beliefs will pop up in your writing, even if that's not your intent. So perhaps just writing the story, then combing it for messages to tie together in the second draft is an effective method, whatever your focus is.

[Kerusso]

I'm Christian, but I don't write for the Christian Fiction market. And that's actually good, because I don't read the Christian Fiction market--I read YA fantasy, sci-fi, and other genres. I don't think I've ever, ever picked up a Christian Fiction book (unless Narnia counts, and that I picked up because it was fantasy). It doesn't appeal, since I get the impression magic, darker heroes, truly awesome villains, harsh violence, and anything too unorthodox are forbidden.

Yeah, I get the same felling about Christian publishers too. 'Course, I've never met submitted anything to one, so I can't simply assume. But, yeah, I know where you're coming from. To be fair to them, though, you want to maintain a good witness to the rest of the world. Though there IS such a thing as too much censorship...

[FllMtl Novelist]

Yeah, I get the same felling about Christian publishers too. 'Course, I've never met submitted anything to one, so I can't simply assume. But, yeah, I know where you're coming from. To be fair to them, though, you want to maintain a good witness to the rest of the world. Though there IS such a thing as too much censorship...

Some Christians are looking for very clean stories with positive messages. I have no problem with that. But not all Christians limit their reading that way, and even if they did, I don't think I need to limit my writing that way. At all.

Because once you start thinking Christian writers should censor themselves solely because they're Christian, how do you decide how much is enough? Some Christians would be offended by a kissing scene. Does that mean I should never write a kissing scene? Some Christians would be offended by a hero killing the villain. Does that mean I'm forbidden from writing a hero who kills the villain? What about a pro-life message? Or an anti-gun message? Or heck, any kind of political message? (Christianity is a pretty politically diverse group.)

Are Catholics allowed to write Protestant characters who never convert? What about the reverse?

The content of my writing revolves around what I am comfortable reading, and what I'm comfortable writing. Imposing any other content limits because I happen to fall under a particular category is absurd, because unless there's a relevant scripture verse or other obvious rule, it's baseless.

[ABlipinTime]

I think "Christian" as a label is slapped onto things incorrectly most times, so I hesitate to say this:
I think "Christian" publishers (whether owned and operated by Christians or just trying to appeal to that market) are afraid to publish things that aren't heavily censored because they don't want bad reviews; or if they aren't afraid, then then publish just about any crap that they can get ahold of that has a Christian label on it. But that's just my take on it - no facts here.

As for writing, I have to agree with FllMtl Novelist. You're welcome to write about anything as a writer, and it can be very beneficial to your audience if you indeed your morals seep into your work. Now, writing about anything can be dangerous too, even though you can do it. Point in case: in the preface to C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters, Lewis talks about how he wrote the story. He figuratively put himself into a demon's mindset by thinking of all the negative things that a human could think or do or be tricked into thinking or doing. The sinful nature obviously helped him, but he said after awhile, he knew he had to finish the book soon because it the negative thoughts were starting to be very prevalent in his mind.

So can we write about witchcraft, magic, demons, etc? Certainly, but let's not dwell on that.

(Side note: I'm reminded of "This Present Darkness", a book by a Christian writer about the spiritual warfare going on. Something to check out when you have the time.)

[FllMtl Novelist]

As for writing, I have to agree with FllMtl Novelist. You're welcome to write about anything as a writer, and it can be very beneficial to your audience if you indeed your morals seep into your work. Now, writing about anything can be dangerous too, even though you can do it. Point in case: in the preface to C.S. Lewis' Screwtape Letters, Lewis talks about how he wrote the story. He figuratively put himself into a demon's mindset by thinking of all the negative things that a human could think or do or be tricked into thinking or doing. The sinful nature obviously helped him, but he said after awhile, he knew he had to finish the book soon because it the negative thoughts were starting to be very prevalent in his mind.

So can we write about witchcraft, magic, demons, etc? Certainly, but let's not dwell on that.

[Yay, agreement! ]
Anyway, adding to this, I think how much a writer can or should dwell on that kind of topic depends entirely on the writer, and that person's writing style. Some people really, truly aren't bothered writing demons, and it doesn't make sense to put a limit on how much they're allowed to think about them. Some others aren't totally comfortable with the demons, but for various reasons will put them in their work regardless. (Neither makes you a 'stronger' or 'weaker' Christian.)

How much your work's content (questionable or otherwise) can bother you also varies depending on your writing style, and how attached you are to your characters. Some writers will truly feel sadness or guilt for a time after killing a beloved character, whereas others won't feel anything. (If you want real examples, Howard Tayler is one of the former, Brandon Sanderson is one of the latter.) Again, neither makes you a 'stronger' or 'weaker' Christian (or person, or writer).

So as with a lot of other writing things, each writer needs to figure out what he or she is comfortable doing.

[Rusty Claymore]

Writing tips again... sort of

Well, hopefully this time it tips in your favor!

how do we integrate Christian themes without dragging down the work, or vice versa?

I haven't written much, but I don't even bother thinking about this. Non-Christian themes are shoveled at us relentlessly and unappologetically, so in turn that's how I write my "Christian" characters. "Christianity" is what they believe, and everyone else can go eat a frog. I don't try to convince people Christianity is how they should live, I just want to show them what someone is like who truly believes it. Whether they think highly or lowly of the character, or are moved for their cause or against it, I don't care.
So in a simple answer: Bluntly. That's how I do it. But I'm not even past chapter two, so take it or leave it. n_n

[ABlipinTime]

@Rusty - writing tipping? oh Rusty, you're hilarious.

As to your blunt way of writing, I can see how it might be interesting to have characters in the story bluntly express their personal beliefs, but I think most of the annoyance occurs when Christian pop-culture or pop-aura (does that make sense?) overshadows everything else. Kinda funny - I really don't know how to say something that is so totally obvious when you experience/witness it. lol

[FllMtl Novelist]

As to your blunt way of writing, I can see how it might be interesting to have characters in the story bluntly express their personal beliefs, but I think most of the annoyance occurs when Christian pop-culture or pop-aura (does that make sense?) overshadows everything else. Kinda funny - I really don't know how to say something that is so totally obvious when you experience/witness it. lol

I'm don't understand what you mean by this; would you clarify please?

[Rusty Claymore]

As to your blunt way of writing, I can see how it might be interesting to have characters in the story bluntly express their personal beliefs, but I think most of the annoyance occurs when Christian pop-culture or pop-aura (does that make sense?) overshadows everything else. Kinda funny - I really don't know how to say something that is so totally obvious when you experience/witness it. lol

I think I get what you are saying, and I agree. But maybe in other things it is actuially secular cult overshadowing, rather than just a neutral? I may not be makin much sense though. >_<

[Riona]

Sorry I'm coming into this late, but I've been away from my computer. As a published fantasy author, and someone who has led a lot of writing groups, I would say that "theme" or "message" is never a good thing to base a story on. A story is about characters doing stuff. Whatever you are like, your story will end up being like you, for good or ill, so as a Christian, you just write about whatever you write about, and it naturally tends to come out.

I remember reading about the famous Christian mystery novelist Dorothy Sayers, and she said that people always bothered her about her main detective character, who was not a believer, and told her that she ought to "convert" him, and she said that she just couldn't imagine him doing that!

Personally I think that any REAL person could come to God somehow, but fictional characters, even well-written ones, are less complex than real people and have to be more consistent than real people often are.

[ABlipinTime]

I think I get what you are saying, and I agree. But maybe in other things it is actuially secular cult overshadowing, rather than just a neutral? I may not be makin much sense though. >_<

Yeah, it could be secular culture. It depends on how you draw the line between secular culture and pop-Christian culture. Then again, maybe I'm not sure of what you're saying either. lol