Warhammer Fantasy and Warhammer 40K General Discussion

[mechana2015]

Yay marines. I can finally run my allies list as intended.
Centurions look aweful BTW.

I hope the nidzilla is better than a scaled up Carnifex... that would be sad and boring. Hoping for something more like some of the lizardmen models.

[Peanut]

Dominatrix seems to be the rumored new Nid.

Also, out of curiosity, has anyone tried out the new Space Hulk video game that just came out today? Its pretty good from what I've played so far.

[mechana2015]

It looked like a game from about 2003, so I wasn't to keen on dropping 30 bucks on it.

Also, I backed a KS for a different company's video game. Ten more dollars will get me a game that looks like X-Com (the recent one) with 5 multiplayer factions, 3 story campaigns, Mac and PC compatability, multiplayer and an exclusive miniature that they're gonna break the mold for once they finish casting them.

[Yamamaya]

Well according to the latest rumors from bell of lost souls the new Nidzilla will be.

""BIG BUG" – Larger than Tervigon sized HQ unit. Oval base, hunched over, but wider. Has 18” synapse. Psyker 4. Prime version: Grants FNP and Counter Attack to Nids in 12.” Stats like Tervigon, except 2A. SitW"
Interesting stuff. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a Domni.

Also we are getting a Tyrant/Hive Guard plastic box. No surprise there.

[Peanut]

I've been doing some thinking and I have some hopes as well as some predictions for the new Nids codex. Well, here is what I am hoping to get in the new Tyranid codex:

-No major nerfs that prevent Psychoir Nid lists from working.
-Buffs to certain units as well as the addition to new ones that make other types of lists (such as Nidzilla, Stealer Shock, just general swarm Nids, Warriors) be competitive.
-Something that allows Nids to get into Assault without getting blasted to pieces by Tau Overwatch.
-Either one or two new Tyranid specific psyker schools that add some interesting buffing and debuffing abiliities
-A larger variety of Bio morphs for just about every unit.
-Cheap (point wise) Carnifexes. I would really like to run a brood of three of these guys GW.
-Either a new Flying Monstrous Creature or a buff to the Harpy/Winged Tyrant to make them more of a threat to all fliers and less vulnerable to a group of Imperial Guard with flashlights.
-Eternal Warrior back on Synapse Creatures at the very least.
-It would also be cool to see some sort of other buffs be given out by Synapse Creatures to those who are in Synapse range. Sort of like what Yamamaya has described above or like the current Old Adversary rules.
-No nerfs to Gargoyles or the Doom Of Malantai

What I expect to get is this:

-Either a balanced dex by Phil Kelly. Or a pound of Cheese by Matt Ward (I haven't heard any recent rumors about whose writing the dex yet though these are the two main names that were dropped a while ago). Honestly, I'm a weirdo and would love to see what Matt Ward would do with Tyranids since, while his codexes have been pretty cheesey and full of bad lore, I've found his armies to be some of the more interesting ones to play/think about since they tend to have a lot of options and interesting rules. Tyranids are one of the few races that really encourages that type of thing so yeah. Bring on the Ward.
-A nerf to Hive Guard.
-An increase in points cost of the Tervigon
-A decrease in point cost of the Carnifex and Hive Tyrant
-Tyranid Warriors will either be moved back to elites or made into useable troops.
-Zoanthorpes will no longer be able to roll for 2 powers each from the Biomancy, Telepathy and Telekinesis trees. I would be surprised if they can get any psychic powers outside of their two standard ones.
-Broodlords will be different in some sort of way.
-Genestealers will be able to assault from infiltrate and outflank again either via some sort of upgrade (such as combining Ymgral Stealers back in with them) or just naturally.
-The Prime designation will mean something more then synapse and a small buff for things like the Trygon.
-The Pyrovore will get better...cause it can't get any worse right?
-There will be some reason to take Hormagants over Termagants in certain lists.
-Some flying monstrous creature in the Nid dex will be good. Whether its the Flyrant again or the Harpy or both or something new.

[Peanut]

I just came across more rumors for Tyranids in November and there was a little interesting tid bit that caught my eye. It is rumored that Warriors will now be an upgrade for squads of Termagants and Hormagants (kind of like a Sgt. for Marines). This, I think, would be an incredibly creative way to deal with their durability problem without giving them eternal warrior. So I hope this makes it in.

[mechana2015]

That would be interesting, since they could hand wounds off to LOS rolls, which makes them pretty survivable... presuming someone doesn't snipe them out with precision shots.

[Peanut]

That would be interesting, since they could hand wounds off to LOS rolls, which makes them pretty survivable... presuming someone doesn't snipe them out with precision shots.

Precision shots I think is the way this stays balanced. I mean can you imagine if there was no way to pick off a Warrior in a squad of 20 Termagants or Hormagants, in cover on top of an objective? Even with Precision shots that's going to be difficult.

[Peanut]

So we haven't had any activity in here in a while. Tyranids have been rumored to be coming out in January for some time now however there is a rumor going around that they may come out in December. And now there is a picture that has been released of one of the new kits that seems to legitimize this rumor to some degree. No clue how long this will be up but this is the Imugr link. Its interesting to note that one of them is holding a new weapon that is not an Impaler Cannon so my guess is that the Impaler Cannon is getting a nerf and this new weapon will do something (maybe give Skyfire or anti infantry shots?).

[Peanut]

So, Tyranids have come out and I finally have my codex. And, if I was to use one word to describe it, I would use disappointment. Yeah, they kind of failed with this one. Its not as bad as the 5th edition dex when that came out though it definitely cannot produce a list that is as competitive as Psychoir Nids was at the start of 6th edition. Simply put, Mech, if you are still playing 40k, you will probably not have to worry about Tyranids while playing Tau unless a supplement comes out that makes them work the way they are supposed to work. It will be competitive against everything other then Tau and Eldar though (possibly). Anyway, here are my thoughts from looking at the dex.

-The biggest disappointment has to do with allies and the BRB psychic powers. Simply put, they aren't in the dex. No allies (including themselves) and no BRB powers. The allies thing just makes no sense to me and I think it was an omission probably caused by the deadline to get the book out. It makes no sense that Space Marines (who have other allies covering every category) would be able to ally with themself for (admittingly good) fluff reasons while Tyranids (with no allies and also just as good fluff reasons) are excluded from something that seems tailor made for them. Supplements will take care of this (maybe) but its just silly that they've cut off Tyranid players from perhaps the defining characteristic of this edition. The BRB powers is even more baffling. I get nerfing the access that Tyranids have to some degree especially since Pyschoir Nids was sort of silly with the numbers of powers they could generate but removing them entirely? Really? Are Tyranid players just not supposed to have any fun with the new features of 6th edition now? So far it looks like Nids can use guns on fortifications (at least until the new FAQ hits) so that's at least something but the allies thing is really just unnecessary.

-Synapse sucks this edition. None of the synapse creatures are that durable on their own and on top of it all, if you are out of synapse, your units have a chance to do something extremely detrimental to their health...such as killing their own models. I get what they were going for here and I like the idea (inversely, you have a slight chance to gain a buff) but the charts they've developed for Instinctive behavior are a bit to extreme. I should not have a 50% chance to possibly have my army fall to pieces if they are out of synapse for some reason. People are bouncing around solutions (Primes in 30 man Gant squads or in a bastion seem the best to me) but this makes the army significantly more difficult to play especially since there is no Eternal Warrior anywhere. So yeah, I don't really need to say this but Warriors still kind of suck thanks to their extreme weakness to strength 8 shooting.

-They removed the Doom of Malantai and the Parasite of Mortrex from the dex. The Doom wasn't too big of a surprise but the Parasite honestly caught me off guard. I think the decision was less motivated by rules and more motivated by a lack of models for them currently. They are both mentioned in the dex so its possible that some data slates will come out with a model to add to the army. I think the Parasite is really needed in this book since its the only unit that can keep up with units like Gargoyles and keep them in synapse.

-The units that have been added aren't too bad. The best is probably the Exocrine which provides great shooting (it has the option of either firing a blast or an assault 6 weapon both at str7 AP 2) and gets a +1 buff to its BS when it hasn't moved for a turn. My only issue with it is that its range on its gun is 24" which is short for a unit that is clearly supposed to be heavy artillery. The Hive Crone is interesting and seems ok. It has these living missle things that get rerolls against swooping FMCs and zooming Flyers and also have the haywire special rule. Their range is pretty good too (48"). It also comes with a str8 vector strike and a flame template weapon which are both pretty nice. Unfortunately, it has the profile of a Harpy which means its Toughness 5, has 5 wounds, and a 4+ save. If it can survive I think it could do some damage but I don't think its going to survive in many games. The Haruspex has gotten a lot of hate but I don't really know why. Its not a bad unit in and of itself its just an assault unit in an edition where assault does not work. Its got some cool rules (like gaining more attacks for each wound it has taken and then being able to regain them in combat) however its slow and probably won't get into combat.

-Other noticeble nerfs. Tervigons got super nerfed but honestly, I'm not surprised and I don't really mind that much. Their points went way up and its even more expensive to take them as troops now. I don't mind this too much though its a bit sad to see nothing else in the troops category really stepping up to pick up the space they occupied. Tyranid Primes also got a points increase which doesn't really give Nids any cheap HQ options. Genestealers got nerfed for some reason that I can't really comprehend. Apparently being awful isn't enough to get a buff in this dex and instead requires a nerf. Rippers also got more expensive which is hilarious because they were so bad in the last dex I honestly thought they were a waste of space and should be completely removed. Oh and Hive Guard are no longer BS4 which makes them slightly less effective then they were before.

-Not everything is bad though, both types of gants got cheaper. I can actually see myself taking Hormagants now since they are one of the quickest units in the dex and they aren't bad at tying people up. Gargoyles got nerfed but not bad enough to justify not taking them. Carnifexes got way cheaper and are, in fact, probably the best unit in the dex. You can, if you really want to, take a total of 9 of them in a list (though that still won't leave you much room for anything else). Flyrants are cheaper and are probably the best HQ choice now that they are Mastery level 2. The Nid psychic powers are actually pretty good though I would gladly trade them to get Biomancy back. The Tyranofex and Mawlocks got cheaper and way better. The elites are no longer dominated by Hive Guard. Venomthorpes are way cheaper and give shrouding out to anything within 6 inches. People are already thinking about putting them in bastions just to be jerks to everyone whose not playing Tau. Zoanthorpes are also very good and their previous two psychic powers are now one psychic power and they get one extra.

-On a last note, as far as releases go, I think this was the best release for GW from a marketing stand point. Stuff like the Tyranid Swarm box and the new Carnifex box are surprisingly cheap for what you are getting. It really does stink that the codex isn't very good because if it was good they would be making a bunch of money right now on Tyranid sales I think. Hopefully a supplement will fix all this...

[mechana2015]

-They removed the Doom of Malantai and the Parasite of Mortrex from the dex. The Doom wasn't too big of a surprise but the Parasite honestly caught me off guard. I think the decision was less motivated by rules and more motivated by a lack of models for them currently. They are both mentioned in the dex so its possible that some data slates will come out with a model to add to the army. I think the Parasite is really needed in this book since its the only unit that can keep up with units like Gargoyles and keep them in synapse..

Yeah unfortunately gw dropped something like a million dollars on a lawsuit earlier this year over other companies making kits that made models they didn't produce anything but rules for. They lost for the most part and the stuff they won is on appeal currently as well, which looks bad for them, so due to their laziness/spite they just dropped the contested models rules (nid drop pod in particular) from the codex. Or at least that's what it looks like.

-On a last note, as far as releases go, I think this was the best release for GW from a marketing stand point. Stuff like the Tyranid Swarm box and the new Carnifex box are surprisingly cheap for what you are getting. It really does stink that the codex isn't very good because if it was good they would be making a bunch of money right now on Tyranid sales I think. Hopefully a supplement will fix all this...

Too bad the first nids related data slate was for marines.

Also Gw stock took a 24% dive yesterday after their last 6 months earning report came out.

[Peanut]

Yeah unfortunately gw dropped something like a million dollars on a lawsuit earlier this year over other companies making kits that made models they didn't produce anything but rules for. They lost for the most part and the stuff they won is on appeal currently as well, which looks bad for them, so due to their laziness/spite they just dropped the contested models rules (nid drop pod in particular) from the codex. Or at least that's what it looks like.

I think the Nid Drop pod is the most likely to make it back into the dex via dataslates/supplements. A bunch of units in the new dex have rules like "Bulky" or "Very Bulky" which make no sense unless they were planing to release something like that later on. The Doom and Parasite might be gone forever which is unfortunate because they (especially the Parasite of Mortrex) would be a big help in this book.

Too bad the first nids related data slate was for marines.

Also Gw stock took a 24% dive yesterday after their last 6 months earning report came out.

Yeah but Vanguard of the Infestation has just been announced and should be out later this week and its the first of a trilogy. According to GW, "if you’re a fan of Genestealers (I know i am, far to many games of Space Hulk in my teenage years), I think you’re going to like the first installment in the trilogy." So this either means that they are going to fix Genestealers and make them a viable unit (which is what we are hoping for) or build an entire update around them without fixing the problem that makes Genestealers terrible (which is what we will likely get).

I also saw the news on the stock dive and supposedly GW germany has been shut down so yeah...not a good day to be GW.

[mechana2015]

I heard the 'hope' (wish listing) is that the gene stealers will cover the also absent Ymgarl strain of genestealers, and possibly GS cults. Given the name of the supplement I'm not feeling positive though. There's a vanguard infestation apocalypse formation bundle on the site and it's just gene stealers, lictors, deathleaper and a brood lord, and no note of anything special that I can see. The text doesn't even mention deathleaper by name either though...

[Peanut]

Yeah I'm not holding out much hope for the first supplement since it was probably written while the book was being written and will just be an extension of that and nothing more. So we will get Genestealers, Lictors, Deathleaper and Broodlords running together with the same rules they had in the codex and nothing to make them work better (though Deathleaper does have some neat rules this edition and is an HQ choice which is interesting). Genestealer cults, if they are added in, will probably be added in much later. There's been rumors that its supposed to tie Tyranids and IG together with a strange alliance set up.

[Peanut]

The Tyranid Dataslate is up for preorders today and a Ymgarl Genestealer is on the front of it...so they might be back or GW might actually hate Tyranid players just that much.

[mechana2015]

It's possible they just threw a 'cool' tyranid on the cover. I believe they can be that lazy. I hope not, though, making people buy a data slate to run ymgarls is also super shady. The tau farsight expansion at least added truly new content.

Personally I'm sort of done with my Gw model collecting for now, unless there's some rediculous deal on one of the... 3 or so kits I still want. Tau are finished for me, and since I play so little I really can't see many necessary adjustments being needed to my force. The riptide is the only interesting model left that I don't own and my elites slot is full below 2000+ points, a scale of game I've never played, and for the price there are better models to buy for painting purposes. Marines are on hold until I have more handle on what I do own, and I decide on an actual army list. I got the one dark eldar model I like and dark vengeance, while cool is... A lot of money for what I actually want. Im going to focus on painting now, gw and non gw, since I sort of have an abysmal models owned vs models finished ratio, and play non gw minis games more often.

[Peanut]

I've looked at Dropzone Commander so if I can convince my friend to try it out I may start playing that as well as 40k occasionally. So I will likely be joining you in the category of trying to finish models and not really buying GW stuff for a while (at least after this supplement since I have to know just how bad this book will be). I have decided to just make my own homebrew Nid dex since I'm pretty certain I could do better (granted that's not saying much at all).

[mechana2015]

The game that knocked me off the GW bandwagon has been warmachine, primarily. I've played more of it, and have a fairly large collection of miniatures for it at this point. DZC is very much on my radar, if I were to have a group to play with, as the minis are really awesome. Infinity and Malafaux also have my attention, and I have incomplete armies for both games, mostly started for painting reasons, but definitely games I'd try out given the chance.

I think my next big focus might be terrain though. If I can build a board then I can play wherever I want to, especially with games like x wing that are extremely quick to set up and learn. Might also look into a few miniatures based board games.

[Peanut]

Oh speaking of modeling, I just realized that another casualty of this new Tyranid Dex is my Dapper Nids idea :/ . I was going to do it as my ally swarm when it was rumored that Tyranids could ally with Tyranids...thanks GW.

[mechana2015]

You might be able to do it with the supplements. They may allow the supplements as their own deal, like they did for Inquisition and farsight armies.

[Peanut]

That's pretty much my only hope for right now dapper Nids. Its easier for me to do it with unpainted models then new ones since I'm too lazy to strip everything and repaint it. I am hearing that the new codex is having some success in early tournaments but its probably still going to struggle against the top tier codices.

[LastLfan]

Edit:oops wrong thread

[Peanut]

So the first Tyranid Supplement is out and...its actually not bad. I need to look at it a bit closer since I just skimmed through it but the formations seem decent and allow Tyranids to deploy their infiltrators about 6" away from their opponents in the right terrain. Granted, this can be abused pretty easily but there are some other neat things in it as well. So basically, the Tyranid dex isn't complete and the dataslates/supplements are being made to complete it...which is a bit of a rip off when you think about it.

Edit: So I had to add this in cause this was just pointed out to me in the 11th Company's intro to their Tyranid review but the Pyrovore's rule is written in a way that...well let me show you. Here is the old Pyrovore rule:

If a Pyrovore is killed by a wound that inflicted instant death, roll a D6. On a 4+ the weapon has ignited the Pyrovore's internal chemicals and all models within D6" of the slain Pyrovore suffer a Strength 3 hit.

Pretty straight forward and fits the fluff pretty well. Now here is the 6th edition rule in all its hilarity.

If a Pyrovore is slain by a Wound that inflicted Instant Death, every unit suffers a Strength 3 AP- hit for each model (excluding Pyrovores) within D6" of the slain Pyrovore (resolve damage before removing the Pyrovore as a casualty).

So as written, if a Pyrovore gets hit by a weapon that causes Instant Death, it does a Strength 3 hit for each model within D6" to every unit on the board. So it basically goes Nuclear and everything pays. This is absolutely awful writing. Its clear they wanted the old rule but wanted it to be a bit more fair and in doing so they have created essentially a Tyranid nuke that can wound everything on the board. Of course this will be FAQ and no one will play it that way but still. Its hilarious.

[mechana2015]

Uhh that pyrovore thing is hilariously broken. Gotta say if you played it as written, and you could bait an insta-death shot out of some Tau you'd probably cripple the army in one shot.

Otherwise it was as I expected. No ymgarls, some sort of Ymgarl stuff, but having to pay extra for some of this material is rediculous. I suspect the anger will grow as the next two come out, and people find other things that should have been in the codex. I noticed that you can't buy (as written) any extra stealers so it's only 5 in that building(?) and up to 5 units of 5.

[Peanut]

Uhh that pyrovore thing is hilariously broken. Gotta say if you played it as written, and you could bait an insta-death shot out of some Tau you'd probably cripple the army in one shot.

That would be pretty difficult to do since I would think any Tau player who is aware of the codex would be aware of that so you would have to trick them into shooting it. Granted if they knew they may not want to shoot at it so this could possibly turn the Pyrovore into one of the most durable units in the codex thanks to that. This is assuming that the rest of your army can pose enough of a threat to get the Tau army at that. But man, if Spore Pods come back (and I've heard a rumor Forgeworld maybe producing them sometime in the future) these guys would become way more worth including...if the rule doesn't get FAQed like it most definitely will.

Otherwise it was as I expected. No ymgarls, some sort of Ymgarl stuff, but having to pay extra for some of this material is rediculous. I suspect the anger will grow as the next two come out, and people find other things that should have been in the codex. I noticed that you can't buy (as written) any extra stealers so it's only 5 in that building(?) and up to 5 units of 5.

Yeah most of the new formations kind of suck. The Manufactorum Genestealers maybe ok if you can take Broodlords (supposedly Eddie on the GW facebook said that you are able but I can't find the post where this was said) but as you noticed its 25 Genestealers split up into 5 broods of 5 so it won't be hard to remove that from the table even if its in a building. The Deathleaper Assassin Brood is even more fragile then this. The formation that has Gargoyles with Sporemines is just silly. The other Lictor brood is ok but you really need a forest to make them work. The only formation that is good is the Broodlord hunting party since you can take more Genestealers and the 6" infiltrate is conferred to arriving from Reserves as well meaning that you can reserve them. But you can't assault the turn they come in so that really isn't too great either. Most of the problem with this update I feel is just that the units its focusing on are all pretty bad. I get the feeling the next two should be better though how much so we will have to wait and see.

[Peanut]

I've played a couple games with the new Nid dex as well as watched some battle reports of people who are way better then me. So here are some random thoughts I have about the dex:

-Random non-Nid related observation. A Necron Overlord fully kitted out is pretty beastly in Close Combat. I threw 6 Genestealers and a Broodlord at it and couldn't bring it down. In fact the Warlord pretty much killed off the entire brood and didn't even take a wound. If only Nids had a Cheap HQ choice that can be kitted out to be pretty beastly in something...oh well.

-Speaking of Genestealers, I have begun to develop a love-hate relationship with a brood of 6-8 with a Broodlord. On one hand, Infiltrating 12" out and pinning a squad is pretty nice. On the other hand, Rending Claws are not very good CC weapons and without Toxin Sacs I don't think there is much they can deal with. Even the Broodlord isn't that threatening in CC.

-I know I've complained about the price of Primes before but not having a cheap HQ choice is making it really hard for me to come up with lists that are around 1000 points (which happens to be the point total my friend and I tend to play at). The need for Synapse compounded with the lack of cheap HQs/Synapse creatures makes it very difficult to get a list with models I want to play on the board.

-From my own experience as well as what I've seen, the best performers in the Dex so far are Carnifexes, Mawlocs, and Exocrine. The Hive Crone and Flyrant have had some success in games I've seen as well but tend to get shot down somewhat easily. I tried the Swarmlord once and the only reason to take him I can see is to generate 3 powers. He's not even the best CC model in the dex anymore in my opinion.

-Speaking of the best CC unit in the Dex, I'm really enjoying the Trygon Prime. As it turns out, it can equip the Bio-Artefacts which allows it to take new rolls or amplify its already existing role as a CC monster. The build I've been experimenting with (just because) is the Maw Claws of Thyrax and the Miasma Cannon. The build isn't very good but the Maw Claws can give Preferred Enemy against an entire codex if you kill a model in CC with it and the Miasma Cannon is a Poison 2+ Template or 36" Poison 2+ Blast which, with Preferred Enemy means that I can get a shooting attack that wounds on a 2 and rerolls 1s. Not too shabby. Its pricey but I like the idea and it works well with deep striking the guy. The other build that is interesting (and is probably the best CC unit in the Dex) is what I have dubbed the Shivagon thanks to a something I read somewhere that brought this build to my attention. By giving the Trygon Prime Maw Claws and the Reaper of Obliterex you get a CC unit with AP 2 attacks, str7, Initiative 7 that has 7 attacks on the charge, rending, access to Preferred enemy eventually, shred, and causes Instant Death on to wound rolls of a 6. You could even throw the Ymgarl factor on it to increase its armor save to a 2+, increase its attacks by 1 or increase its strength by 1 during the assault phase.

-Tervigons as troops still aren't bad. They are pricey but I can't really complain about a unit that creates more units.

-Nid shooting isn't terrible. If Tau and Eldar didn't exist I'd probably say its pretty good but with the bar raised I unfortunately can't. In just thinking of lists that could possibly be run, I came up with one that can throw out 48 str 6 shots, 180 str 4 shots, and 12 str 7 shots on top of 7 Psychic powers to be rolled and 6 Warp Blasts (which can be either a str 5 blast or str 10 lance). Included in this list is 5 units with Synapse and a total of 8 models with that rule so Synapse wouldn't be a problem. I may have the models to try this list out so I may at some point test it against my Grey Knights just to see what happens.

-So far, the main tactic for Nids that I've seen that works is to hide and wait. I saw a battlereport where someone almost beat a Taudar army by using this tactic and then waiting for his opponent to make a mistake around turn 5 where he went for the win. He would have won it then if the game had ended but it didn't so he conceded. Not bad considering the fact that Taudar is way better then Tyranids.

[Peanut]

Its been a couple of months and hey we now can build an army comprised of 3-6 models to fill that giant robot void in all of our collective lives! Anyway, I'm writing this because I've played some more games with Nids, the second dataslate is out and I've seen more battle reports of other people playing them. Also I may be playing a game against my friend soon so I'll get to put more of these thoughts to the test. Not much has changed in terms of my basic assessment of them. The book is a disappointment but there are things that are pretty good. So here's what I've learned:

-The current competitive Nid list is focusing on FMCs and runs about 2 Flyrants and 3 Hive Crones. Its pretty aggressive and it has bad match-ups but overall it isn't bad and avoids the synapse problem for the most part. Hiding isn't a tactic really used by this list because there's really no reason too in the current meta.

-Dataslate 2 is pretty good. There is one bad formation, one "this really could have been better" formation, 2 pretty good formations and one absolutely amazing formation. That amazing formation is the Skyblight swarm which lets you take a Flyrant, Hive Crone, 2 Harpies, and 3 broods of Gargoyles. The big thing with this formation is the fact that the Gargoyles are super scoring units (it seems) and cannot be contested on objectives by other scoring units. AND, if you kill the entire brood they can go back into reserves in full with all their biomorphs on a 4+. Add another 4-5 FMCs to this with the standard Nid list and you have something that's very competitive and very hard to deal with. I don't have the models to play this (yet) but I think this is the way to go if you are allowed to take formations.

-I mentioned that Carnifexes, Mawlocs and Exocrine were the best performers but after some more test games I have to change some of that around. Mawlocs aren't as great as everyone thought they were. They are still really good since they are a T6 6 wound Monstrous Creature for 140 points but their deep strike ability is to inconsistent to really be scary. Exocrine are still pretty good but I think you really need to take 2. Carnifexes I am continuing to love and I think there are a good variety of builds for them. Besides the standard 2-TL Devourer build, I've started to experiment with Crushing Claws and a Stranglethorn Cannon. Biovores are also great from what I've read as are Tyranofexes. However, I'm really writing this whole thing to talk about the Trygon Prime again. I mentioned my earlier build with the Maw Claws and the Miasma Cannon but now I've just dropped the Maw Claws entirely and I'm finding it to be a pretty decent deep striking threat to my opponents backfield. Its not great and really isn't worth the points but simply put, I can deep strike it a little over 1" away from my opponent and because of its special rule, I won't have to worry about misshaping unless I scatter off the table. Then I can drop its two shooting attacks to do some damage and assault the unit if I really want to. I've found that it can kill about 3 Marines per turn which is roughly what it would be killing in CC. That's not too bad and seeing as how the flamer is AP4, things like Necron Warriors aren't going to have too great of a day against it in anyway.

[mechana2015]

Cool to hear nids are working out and that the battleslate (DLC) are actually providing benefit. I've had an interest in several of their digital products but nothing has panned out for them, and I've bought none of them. Legion of the D, was outright disappointing, offering practically nothing new other than 'Run lots more'. I was really hoping to find something in that to use them more, like a dreadnought. Sisters and inquisition both failed by having no associated models available to buy. Would it have killed them to release ONE plastic for each? A multi part build your own inquisitor set and plastic battle sisters could have gotten me quite on board with each. I'd love to build the female inquisitor that's in the art in the book, and build her a retinue, but there's practically nowhere to easily start that project.
(For reference, Farsight enclaves was never happening for me, I run a Shadowsun tau army)

Any thoughts on the deep strike tunnel + termigaunts strategy?

Edit:
Oh and regarding the Knights... Big thumbs down. Cool idea, strongly dislike the model. It's small for the price, and the shoulder pads... Even coming from warmachine where the shoulder pads are king, they look off. Codex of one model also wasn't cool. Maybe I'm spoiled by warmachine but it irks me to pay 50 dollars for the rules to a 100 dollar or more model.

As for getting my giant robot jones, I've got the better looking new broadside and if I felt like throwing a lot of money at a model, a Riptide is pretty good sized and looks better. But... More likely than not I'll be getting one of these before a riptide: http://privateerpress.com/files/product ... eonWEB.jpg
Harpoon tridents on pirate robots are fun... And that model is cast resin and pewter.

There's always http://privateerpress.com/files/product ... om_WEB.jpg and http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/ga ... rthbreaker as well as 5 other pretty awesome giant robots for armies I don't currently play if I felt like going on a painting/assembly mania.

[Peanut]

Cool to hear nids are working out and that the battleslate (DLC) are actually providing benefit. I've had an interest in several of their digital products but nothing has panned out for them, and I've bought none of them. Legion of the D, was outright disappointing, offering practically nothing new other than 'Run lots more'. I was really hoping to find something in that to use them more, like a dreadnought. Sisters and inquisition both failed by having no associated models available to buy. Would it have killed them to release ONE plastic for each? A multi part build your own inquisitor set and plastic battle sisters could have gotten me quite on board with each. I'd love to build the female inquisitor that's in the art in the book, and build her a retinue, but there's practically nowhere to easily start that project.
(For reference, Farsight enclaves was never happening for me, I run a Shadowsun tau army)

Any thoughts on the deep strike tunnel + termigaunts strategy?

Yeah they need to release a build your own Inquisitor model at some point or at least inquisitor models with options for each group. It wouldn't hurt them to release a warrior acolyte kit as well but you can sort of use guard for that anyway. Most of the other models are around though not in boxes that are large enough to quickly build an army.

On the Deep Strike Tunnel Termigaunts strategy. I've heard about it and think it could be very good for termagants only. You can't assault out of the tunnels so Hormagants will just get mowed down again. You can, however, shoot the turn you arrive so having a bunch of Termagants with devourers showing up and mowing you down could be pretty nasty. The issue will be getting people to shoot at the Termagants and not the Hormagants or Warrior brood. Overall Skyslasher Swarm and Living Artillery are both better though I wouldn't call Endless swarm bad either.

Edit:
Oh and regarding the Knights... Big thumbs down. Cool idea, strongly dislike the model. It's small for the price, and the shoulder pads... Even coming from warmachine where the shoulder pads are king, they look off. Codex of one model also wasn't cool. Maybe I'm spoiled by warmachine but it irks me to pay 50 dollars for the rules to a 100 dollar or more model.

As for getting my giant robot jones, I've got the better looking new broadside and if I felt like throwing a lot of money at a model, a Riptide is pretty good sized and looks better. But... More likely than not I'll be getting one of these before a riptide: http://privateerpress.com/files/product ... eonWEB.jpg
Harpoon tridents on pirate robots are fun... And that model is cast resin and pewter.

There's always http://privateerpress.com/files/product ... om_WEB.jpg and http://privateerpress.com/warmachine/ga ... rthbreaker as well as 5 other pretty awesome giant robots for armies I don't currently play if I felt like going on a painting/assembly mania.

I personally like the Knight codex entirely because it costs about 4.99 and an internet connection to actually play them (though given how much that issue of White Dwarf got wrong maybe I shouldn't trust it). Also, now that the size is known it should be pretty easy to find things that can stand in, allowing anyone who wants to get into 40k and happens to have something like some Gundam models sitting around to enter it cheaply with a somewhat broken army. In all seriousness, I like the models though as soon as I saw them my first thought was "huh, so GW is ripping off Warmachine now." And I don't think they are showing up Privateer press with these models either. So really this entire thing has looks like a major marketing failure.

[mechana2015]

Yeah they need to release a build your own Inquisitor model at some point or at least inquisitor models with options for each group. It wouldn't hurt them to release a warrior acolyte kit as well but you can sort of use guard for that anyway. Most of the other models are around though not in boxes that are large enough to quickly build an army.

For the rest of the models I'd have to hunt for them or kitbash as well. Lets just say I'm kicking myself for not grabbing Death Cult, Callidus and Vindicare Assassin models and a Joekaro before they were made finecast, and that GW lost a TON of money from me when they switched to finecast for new and old models.

On the Deep Strike Tunnel Termigaunts strategy. I've heard about it and think it could be very good for termagants only. You can't assault out of the tunnels so Hormagants will just get mowed down again. You can, however, shoot the turn you arrive so having a bunch of Termagants with devourers showing up and mowing you down could be pretty nasty. The issue will be getting people to shoot at the Termagants and not the Hormagants or Warrior brood. Overall Skyslasher Swarm and Living Artillery are both better though I wouldn't call Endless swarm bad either.

Skyslasher really would be a pain, and seems to be the one everyone has slated as the best in the dataslate. It's the one that worries me the most for sure, since I already have enough trouble with contesting and taking objectives since I play super Gunline tau. I might have a chance if I could get a scenario where something else was scoring, like fast attack or Elites or... well anything other than troops really. <.<

I personally like the Knight codex entirely because it costs about 4.99 and an internet connection to actually play them (though given how much that issue of White Dwarf got wrong maybe I shouldn't trust it). Also, now that the size is known it should be pretty easy to find things that can stand in, allowing anyone who wants to get into 40k and happens to have something like some Gundam models sitting around to enter it cheaply with a somewhat broken army. In all seriousness, I like the models though as soon as I saw them my first thought was "huh, so GW is ripping off Warmachine now." And I don't think they are showing up Privateer press with these models either. So really this entire thing has looks like a major marketing failure.

Well I'd both be concerned with what that issue of White Dwarf contained (incorrect information) but also with what I don't know it contained. Did it contain the two or so pages of rules for superheavy walkers, catastrophic destruction and the other rules relevant to operating the thing? Or just the statline. Because if it was just the statline then your sources for the actual other rules to run it are in the 50 dollar codex, or the 50 dollar Escalation book.

Heres why I'm really put off by this rule cost.
Warmachine Colossals come with the cards with the stats and some of the relevant rules on them in the box, as do all Warmachine Models. The rest of the rules are available 3 ways -
First the way I got them, No Quarter Magazine 42. Avaliable for 8 bucks before the models released (by a month) it has all the rules necessary to run any of the 6 colossals that came out over the next 6 months or so. Also had a batrep, and previews for the Gargantuans (the Hordes version of colossals). It's now avaliable digitally through their reader app for 5 bucks.

Second was the book, which came out in July. 35 Dollars softback, 45 hardback, had the rules and all the colossals stats in it, as well as 6 new warcasters. Now also 25 on digital.

Lastly was through the War Room App. Don't remember the release date. 7 Dollars for your entire armies stats ad infinitum (until they move to a new edition rule set), and all relevant rules for all models through a lookup feature, with integrated errata updates. Included all colossal rules. I have this too, so I actually have the colossal rules twice and don't even own one yet.

Thats why I'm annoyed. If something is this expensive, I expect better support. I was going to start up Dark Eldar and Chaos marines for a while, but the rules cost alone made me stop dead. I've already spent 100 dollars on Codexes for an edition of 40K I haven't even gotten to play. My chaos Marines are just going to be me recreating the Dark Vengence box with kitbashing and small purchases probably, since I have those rules since someone gave them to me, if I do them at all. If I could get stats/rules for cheap, I'd probably be planning or working on small ally/kill teams of Imperial Guard, Dark Eldar, Inquisition, Eldar and Sisters armies, granted access to models in acceptable materials.

Speaking of... Kill teams was another rules pricing fiasco... It's 12 - 13 dollars for 31 pages, but you need the 40 dollars minimum digital 40k rule book and a 50 dollar codex just to play.

As I said the Knight model doesn't do it for me but some people do seem to like it, and I will say they aren't ripping off Warmachine... Knights have been around in GW lore for years, just not for 40K proper. The only thing they might be bandwagoning onto is the large models craze. Proxy models are being sought after already for the Knight from what I've seen thanks to the cost (and lots of sadness occurred when people found that the Dreamforge Leviathan can't do it), just as with the Riptide and WraithKnight. As for a marketing failure... they'd have to do marketing to fail at that . I think the model will sell reasonably well actually, and I'd possibly consider one myself if I thought I could cut it up and make it look a little more to my liking, but at 135/180 dollars (depends on how much it is to get the rules to run it) thats a high priced model to be chopping away indiscriminately at to make it look better. I'd consider it at around $75, maybe even a hundred since I'd be getting discounts from the stores I shop at.

Rant aside, any thoughts on the third Nid dataslate?