Attention Shoujo fans! Your opinion is needed!

[Ashley]

*puts down bullhorn* now that I have you all here, I need some help from you. See, I am currently working on a short shojou manga title to be produced by Happy Go Lucky Monkey Co. (aka Mave and True_Noir_Chloe). The story is set on a local college campus, and revolves around a Christian couple, and their sets of Christian and non-Christian friends. I plan on hitting issues like sex, drugs, alcohol, cheating, ethics, dating, etc. etc. As Chloe put it, "teen tv" issues. However, I want to make this the best I can. I want to be able to reach out to both Christian girls and the ones drawn to teen soap opera type stuff.

That being said, what would you like to see in a Christian shoujo title?

I can't guarantee that I will use your ideas, but I'm very open to them. I figure the best way to make a manga is to talk to your audience and find out what they want, right?

I appriciate each and every one of you guniea pigs that respond! And I mean that in the most loving way possible. ^^

[Mangafanatic]

Pugiea pig 1 reporting for duty!

Lemme see, what would I want to see in Christian shoujo manga? That's a toughy, I mean, how many times do you have to think about that? Well, I guess I'd want to see a Christian girl portrayed realistically. I'm so sick of Christian girls coming off as Hypocritical or impossibly saintly. Afterall, Christian girls screw up too! (Being one myself, I feel qualified to make that statement. )

And, well, if we're going to appeal to soap opera crowd, we're obviously in need of a seriously good male lead. I would love to see a genius gentleman. There are just too few of them in real life that having a few more in manga would be nice.

Is this the kind of response you're looking for, or do you want something more specific?

[Ashley]

Well, do you want to delve a little bit? Like, you said you wanted a Christian girl with faults. I can see one character you'll like already, but indulge me--what kind of faults? Personality quirks? Worry wart? Too shy/sensitive? Too bold? Or do you mean more like situational errors? As I said, I already have plans for one prodigal daughter, so I hope you'll like her.

As for the male lead--well there are 3 main males. Sweet but dumb, the slick one, and the boulder of faith one. I hope everyone will be satisfied. ^^

There are just too few of them in real life that having a few more in manga would be nice.

Therein lies the difficulty. On the one hand, you want believability. But on the other, you want fantasy and people that are probably too good to be true. Let's face it, how many shoujo girls/guys just wouldn't cut it in the real world? But that's part of what makes manga so appealing--it's an escape from this ugly world.

Which is more appealing--realism or fantasy? Is there a way to blend both? And if so, how do you suggest it?

Also, help me out with the negatives here--what kind of cliches do you want me to steer clear of? What themes have been over used and over done? This will help me think of fresh things or spin cliches in a whole new way. Thanks mangafan; honestly I knew you would respond to this. ^^

[shooraijin]

Actually as a male shoojo fan, the male roles you have above are kind of, well, stilted, unless you meant them in jest.

Myself, I'd prefer realism over fantasy, but I'd like a happy ending.

[RoyalWing]

You know what! I think you should take personalities from the people on this website! For example you could make a serious one that can also be funny (taken from: omega amen, uc pseudonym, zilch) or a guy that loves himself very much but also loves others as well, very smart (taken from : shooraijin)! That way you are sure to be more realistic because your characters are based of real people?
^-^

At least, I think... oh I'm sorry.. this was stupid! *...runs...*

[Spirit_Wolf8356]

Base their faults on the personalities you give them, is all I can say on that note. You can't just randomly give someone a fault, ya know?

A cliche I'd prefer to see steered away from: having the girl fall for the guy almost right away with no thought about it whatsoever. Same thing for the guy. The immediate fall head over heels-oh I'll never love anyone but you my love-so sappy sweet it's nasty kinda thing bothers me to no end.

....Perhaps I was a bit too forceful with that one.

[shooraijin]

No, you weren't. I can't stand plots like that either.

[Ashley]

Well, the only problem with that is that this is designed to be a very short manga series--only 2 volumes. Not a lot of room for beating around the bush as far as courting goes, y'know? But, it's a valid point and one I will try to consider.

Also, slight update here if anyone cares; the project is no longer a HGLM Co. one, so please direct all comments to myself alone.

[Mangafanatic]

Well, do you want to delve a little bit? Like, you said you wanted a Christian girl with faults. I can see one character you'll like already, but indulge me--what kind of faults? Personality quirks? Worry wart? Too shy/sensitive? Too bold? Or do you mean more like situational errors? As I said, I already have plans for one prodigal daughter, so I hope you'll like her.

As for the male lead--well there are 3 main males. Sweet but dumb, the slick one, and the boulder of faith one. I hope everyone will be satisfied. ^^

Hmm. . . what faults would I like to see? Well, I think I'd like to see a chick who doesn't always have the answers for teh questions in her life. A girl who endlessly tries to solve her problems on her own (you know, act first, pray later?). Of course, she gets tied in knots doing it, but she does it none the less. And some situational errors. Afterall, we all make those.

Therein lies the difficulty. On the one hand, you want believability. But on the other, you want fantasy and people that are probably too good to be true. Let's face it, how many shoujo girls/guys just wouldn't cut it in the real world? But that's part of what makes manga so appealing--it's an escape from this ugly world.

Which is more appealing--realism or fantasy? Is there a way to blend both? And if so, how do you suggest it?

Hmm. . . that's a toughy. For me, I'd say a blend-- heavier on the fantasy side, though. ]
Also, help me out with the negatives here--what kind of cliches do you want me to steer clear of? What themes have been over used and over done? This will help me think of fresh things or spin cliches in a whole new way. [/QUOTE]
Um, since I know nothing about your plot I can't really say what cliches you might be treading on, buit I'll tell you a one vastly over use romantic plot devices that I can't stand. Hmm, well, there's the timesless "Me? Love her? Dude, she's like my sister." Okay, anytime anyone sees a plot similar to this in any way, well, we all know what's going to happen. He'll wake up one morning and realize that she's not "like his sister." She's more like his G/F. So there's one. (I'll tell you what I'd like to see-- a spin on this. I'd love to see a guy who says the above and *da dum* actually means it!!! What a concept.)

[Saint Kevin]

As for the male lead--well there are 3 main males. Sweet but dumb, the slick one, and the boulder of faith one. I hope everyone will be satisfied. ^^

First off...3 MAIN male characters in two volumes...good luck pulling that off. Also, I agree with Shoo...those descriptions of the guys seem a little too...cliche.

Good idea MF with the guy who actually means it bit...it'd be interesting to see something that doesn't HAVE to end with the male and female leads ending up together.

Here's something that maybe you could clarify - You said something about whether or not we'd want fantasy or realism. What exactly do you mean by fantasy? Superpowers? Non-human characters? Supernatural occurences? What exactly?
Or maybe you were just asking if you wanted the characters to be realistic "warts and all."

My advice, is that since you're tackling real issues, why don't you make the characters and the universe fairly realistic.

I don't know how much advice I can give without having more of an idea of where you're going with this. PM me your MSN ID (if you have one) and maybe I can talk to you about it there.

[ZiP]

Hmmm, I think it would be realistic to have the battl against drugs ongoing,
to remind people that you can't say "No." just once.

[Mave]

Wow.... V-E-R-Y valuable feedback....pls everyone, keep talking. You have no idea how much you're blessing us, aspiring manga producers. ^__^

*quickly goes back to change script of her future manga chapters since it's loaded with cliches* *nervous laughter*

[Ashley]

Well, I guess I phrased myself wrong--there is one guy, and there is his Christian friend and his non-christian friend.

As I've said, I'm willing to work with stereotypes and cliches--that's part of my focus audience's hook. But I do want to just toe the line--no one will read something that's been done a million and one times, so I will try to put my own spin on things. I like the idea of couples breaking up, as well as the ongoing battle with drugs. As Mave said, keep talking everyone...you're giving us good ideas.

[uc pseudonym]

Guniea pigs are fairly cute, though pretty stupid. My family had one for quite a few years...

Foremost, answering the question (though I really don't even fill the requirements):

It would be very interesting to see a manga in which the primary leads do not have to get together by the end. But I can understand how that might be unworkable.

No love at first sight, the meaning of which I extend far beyond the common usage. If you're aiming for two volumes, might I suggest the people who end up getting together in the end (not necessarily everyone) already know each other vaguely well at the beginning?

To answer a secondary question, themes that should be avoided. I will attempt not to repeat anything that has been said.

The circumstances that keep the romantic interests apart need to be decent. I lose massive amounts of respect for a manga when the primary difficulties stem from stupidity that no normal human would possess. Any isues dealt with should be done so in a realistic manner.

Any character with only one personality note is a bad character.

Between realism and fantasy, I choose realism.

That is all that comes to mind immediately.

[Ducky]

Guniea pigs eh? I accidently drowned Mikey the guniea pig while trying to bathe him when I was five ... on a more on topic note...

I guess I would like to see something that shows that you don't have to be in a dating relationship to be happy/fulfilled. I mean singleness is a gift especially at the age that most manga characters tend to be ... so maybe something that shows that it's cool to not rush into relationships?

[shooraijin]

That's a great point, Ducky. Something that might emphasize the platonic for a change.

[Saint Kevin]

Yeah, I was talking to my cousin about that subject today...apparently the idea of a platonic relationship is completely foreign to people these days. It'd be nice to see.

[Ashley]

Grin...oh you guys are gonna like this then. I was planning on a a platonic relationship, but now I will see about emphasizing it more.

[shooraijin]

Good!

[uc pseudonym]

That is good to hear. The loss of the platonic is one of the most terrible things about the current state of society. It used to be that one was safe having same-gender friends, but now even that is uncertain ground. This information greatly increases my level of favorability toward this project.

Yeah, I was talking to my cousin about that subject today...apparently the idea of a platonic relationship is completely foreign to people these days. It'd be nice to see.

Pla-what?

[RoyalWing]

I know this will be very off subject, and that the post before me ^ was a joke, but what does this word mean? For some reason my dictionary doesn't have it. I'm very sorry about this. (_ _);;

[shooraijin]

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=platonic&r=67

It has a number of nice definitions for your perusal.

[Ducky]

Platonic = a close relationship between two persons in which sexual desire is nonexistent or has been suppressed or sublimated;of, relating to, or being a relationship marked by the absence of romance or sex

The above being pasted from miriam webster's website... love that place...

It stinks that people seriously don't seem to know what these are anymore (I mean even without the term platonic) becuase these can be some of the best relationships. I'm glad you'll be putting that in the manga and I can't wait to read it!

[RoyalWing]

Thank you for your help guys!! I do understand the word now, but the reason I don't use those websites is because the words in the definitions are also too hard for me to understand most of the time~ Yes, I am stupid, I'm so sorry for bothering for this. ^-^;;

Back on subject (I guess): I think the platonic one is good. It's true love right? Pure? I don't see that very often and I think, it would be the most cool thing to see~ Mostly, I would really like to see how you would make such a thing work for your comic, because you can't really take examples from anywhere?

[Mave]

Thank you for your help guys!! I do understand the word now, but the reason I don't use those websites is because the words in the definitions are also too hard for me to understand most of the time~ Yes, I am stupid, I'm so sorry for bothering for this. ^-^]
[OT]aww, RoyalWing, it's so much quicker and easier to use the online webster, rather than dragging that awfully big dictionary around. But there's nothing wrong in asking anyway. [/OT]

Back on subject (I guess): I think the platonic one is good. It's true love right? Pure? I don't see that very often and I think, it would be the most cool thing to see~ Mostly, I would really like to see how you would make such a thing work for your comic, because you can't really take examples from anywhere?

I'd say the best way to go with this is just take it from your own personal life. It's a lot easier to write a story about it, if you've been blessed with such relationships. Look around yourself and see what God has given you. ^^ Some of my characters are based off my Christian brothers/sisters offline.

[true_noir_chloe]

There are lots of great ideas on this thread. I really like originality. I don't want to see something done over and over again. I think you can have some very real problems facing some fantastical characters.

I guess if I'm looking for a shoujo it's usually a blend of romance/comedy and drama. I think you need drama to keep it real, but not to burden it, and that's when you need the comedy.

For a more platonic story, which I think is a great idea, I would probably just make sure that you don't forget the element of love. Because I believe as humans we have a very strong emotion which carries us through life, and that is our deep ability to love others.

Also, I think if you're doing an online manga you have to consider your readers. I mean, not to say a good story will not always be a good story and strong characters will not always be strong characters - it's just, the kids online are fringe in how they perceive life. They are not the kids who are out of the soccer field 24/7 or shooting baskets. They are kids who love anime, reading manga, very computer literate, introverted or loners, maybe like music that doesn't always play on RadioDisney, think a little deeper, and are independent thinkers.

Now, I'm not saying all kids are like this on the internet and the ones who read the online mangas are weird, please don't read that into what I just wrote. What I mean is your audience probably wants something unique and original - because they're unique and original.

[Gypsy]

I agree with t_n_c about light comedy being needed. I have always steered away from stuff that involves total angst and extreme emotion always being displayed. The only good example I can think of is soap operas. While tackling the serious issues is important to capture correctly, the weight of the drama needs to be considered.

Um ... what else ... I guess I'll just repeat some other good posts and say: keep it real. Even the most solid-in-Christ character isn't going to always know what to do or say. I personally tend to relate more to characters when I see them make mistakes, or they have obvious (and non-cliche) faults. Not everyone is happy all the time. Not everyone thinks clearly under stress. Not all outcomes are happy. Also, I'd suggest reading the dialogue out loud, too. What may look good in a script form may not cross over well to a manga. Beware of stiff and stale responses.

[Kisa]

In a Christian shojo manga huh? hmmmmm . . .
I'd like to see a real girl with real life issues and faults like mangafan said. Also it'd be nice to see charcters with a religion besides buddihsm or whatver they may have in various mangas . . .
It'd also be nice to see someone with Christian values not played off as some goody goody or stupid . . .
I dunno, just some thoughts ^^'

[Cap'n Nick]

Great project! I look forward to seeing it.

Be careful with the drug thing. It's an important issue, to be sure, but it could easily metastasize into a cliche.

As for things to include, for me, good manga is all about characters. Let me feel something about them, whether it be love, hate, or even better, both. Make me care about what happens to them. Make me sympathize with them, even or especially if they act or think in ways that I don't approve. Most importantly, let the characters speak for themselves. In Christian manga especially there is the danger of warping characters to fit the particular illustration the artist is after, even if it means making them shallow or unbelievable. Don't sacrifice your message but at the same time don't make pretzels of anybody's personality to do it.

[Little T-chan]

Sorry, I don't have any suggestions for titles...but what I would like to see in a shoujo manga is...a relationship that isn't that "we-were-childhood-friends-but-look-now" kind of relationship. And I think it would be better if the girl and the boy didn't start to be boyfriend and girlfriend cuz it just starts to get messy..but if this is going to be realistic..I guess that's not really an option??? And they shouldn't kiss a lot and hold hands every breathing moment. Am I just repeating everything that everyone else just said? ^^; I don't know what else to say, I've never read a realistic manga before.