Bleach Speculation (Chapters 300+)

[uc pseudonym]

This thread is for discussion of the current chapters of Bleach. If you are keeping up with the Japanese releases, you are welcome to jump into the discussion. That having been said, it wouldn't hurt to read a few pages to get a sense for the tone of our discussion.

[Mave]

I would participate in this.....

....after I catch up with the chapters. I'm pretty behind in both Naruto (again!) and horribly so in Bleach. (>.<)

[Kami]

O_O; Sorry I haven't replied. I just read 197 :O OEKJSDKLFJSDK WOAH. I'm a little confused at the whole... Hogyoku thing though. So. Err :

[Spoiler=BLEACHSPOILER] So, Hat and Sandels made the Hogyoku, and Aizen stole it. Now. Ichigo went through the 'Hygyoku process' and now he's kind of a " Vastrode ?[/spoiler]

At least, that's how I got it. What do you all think ? x_x;

-Kami

[uc pseudonym]

I guess we can use spoiler tags for a brief time, at least.

[spoiler]Urahara Kisuke (aka Hat and Sandles) created the Hogyoko (is that the romanization? I don't remember), yes. Since he couldn't destroy it he tried to let it die through Rukia's altered gigai, but Aizen put a stop to that.

Ichigo's transformation, however, has nothing to do wtih the Hogyoko. It hasn't really been fully explained, but my theory is that he became a Shinigami and a Hollow at exactly the same time, but the Shinigami side is currently dominant. I think the Hollow inside of him can't really be judged by the normal rules, but it's probably quite fair to say it's as powerful as a Vastrode.[/spoiler]
Regarding 199 and beyond, who would like to bet that Grim Jaws dies soon? The angry guys who attack early generally die. However, if he was losing and Aizen sent Hollows to back him up, I would be impressed (but I doubt Kubo Tite will do that).

[Kami]

Hmm o_o Where do you get your Scans ? Bleachportal ? You read the raws right ? I was just wondering becasue I haven't seen beyond 197 up o_o

-kami

[uc pseudonym]

Because I have essentially no knowledge of Japanese, I do not read the raw versions, unless I'm curious about what will happen and it isn't likely to include a great deal of talking. The remainder of your question I was answer via PM.

[Kami]

Yeah. I BET. He starts a fight with either Renji, or Ichigo. He reminds me of an evil Renji. I have this feeling >.> ... GrimJaw looked like a cool bad guy too. =\

-Kami

[uc pseudonym]

I'm pretty sure he'll go after Ichigo, given how much he was running his mouth about it during the meeting. However, given that Ichigo has had a fair amount of limelight recently, I would not be surprised if the other shinigami that have showed up would take a hand in the battle (though, honestly, only Hitsugaya really stands a chance against Grim Jaw).

As for Renji, I predict he will not be seen for a while. Given that he already has his Bankai, all he needs is training, which Urahara could very easily give him. If he knew how to control it properly he'd be pretty dangerous (or he could find a slightly different form of it, like Rukia's brother uses).

[uc pseudonym]

Ah, it looks as though I could be wrong about this. He brought friends, and that shows he's using a bit of foresight and doing something intelligent (it would be ridiculous if they all attacked one at a time). If I were Aizen, I would have taken all my complete Hollows, then killed all my most powerful opponents one or two at a time, retreating to Hueco Mundo if things ever got difficult. But that wouldn't make for a very enjoyable manga, would it?

Still, even just this little bit of information is very key in how I think Kubo Tite is going to be handling this arc (which may or may not be the last). Now I want to spend a bit of time looking at the upcoming fights. The Hollows are easy, but the human side is only speculation.

Hollows
Grim Jaw
D-roy
Shauron
Edrad
Eilforte
Nakeim

Notable Humans/Shinigami
Ichigo (it's almost a certainty that he'll knock off one)
Rukia (probably not. From her performance at the beginning of the series, she's pretty weak)
Hitsugaya (I'm guessing he could take an opponent)
Renji (perhaps he and some others team up against one?)
Urahara Kisuke (I'd be surprised if he didn't take out one)
Yoruichi (the question is if she is healed yet, but she'll eventually get a real fight)
Isshin (his battle against the Fisher was hardly enough to really see him...)

I'm guessing that in this stage of the war Chad, Inoue and the weaker shinigami from Soul Society will be only people that need to be saved by the stronger fighters. There are also two other groups that have not been considered but could well take a role:
The Vaizards
The Quincy (just Ishida and his father, but they pack quite a bit of power. However, I'm guessing they won't appear in this phase)

[Kami]

Lol The funny thing is the only people who keep this thread up is you and Me Uc-sama XD;; I don't know what's going on, but Bleach Portal makes my AOL freak out and shut down. I have yet to read 198 and 199. Wait. I might have read 198...I forget. XD; So, I'll try again right quick. I was going to tell you it might be a while before I update oo;

-kami

[uc pseudonym]

Yes, apparently we don't have many Bleach-readers on CAA. Eventually Mave will join us, though it could be along while.

If Bleach Portal causes problems for you, I suggest Bleach7. You don't even have to be registered for some of their features.

[MasterDias]

I've been meaning to reply to this actually but I never got around to it.

Anyway, I read 200 this morning. The fights that started are: Ichigo versus one, Hitsugaya and Matsumoto versus two, Ikkaku and Yamashika versus one, and Renji versus one. It's possible that some combination of Kisuke, Yoroichi, Tessai, Jinta, and Ururu will get involved in that last one since I'm assuming it's taking place near Urahara Shoten.

Now the big question is, where is Grim Jaw?

[Kami]

Yes =o I also read it this morning. I was suprised at the line up a little, seeing as I expected Ichigo to face up with Grim Jaw, but I suppose they will do what they did in the Seireitei, and have him go up against [ minor ] evil dudes, then face Grim Jaw ? I doubt Yoruichi will sit out, and Urahara definatly won't sit around either. [ Btw. I'm glad we have another participator in this XD; Tis' cool. ]
So far the official lineup :
Ichigo vs. D-Roy
Hitsugaya vs. Shauron
Matusumoto vs. Nakeim
Yumichika and Ikkaku vs. Edrad
Renji vs. Eil-Forte

DunnDuunndunn

-Kami

[uc pseudonym]

Ah, you guys beat me to posting the lineup. However, there's nothing stopping me from doing some speculation about the fights. Before I begin, glad to see you here, MasterDias, and not just so we have more than two participants.

D-Roy: Eh, it's Ichigo. We can be pretty certain he'll win, though it is possible he'll have to work out his issues with his Hollow self.

Shauron: This fight will determine a lot about how the rest of the manga will go, in my opinion, primarily answering the question of just how powerful the Arrancar truly are. For example, do any of them have Shikai or Bankai? If so, I'll be somewhat disappointed, as then I'd feel they were overpowered. From his own words, Hitsugaya shouldn't be able to win, but he seems confident enough...

Nakeim: Obviously Matsumoto doesn't stand a chance. That raises the question of who will interefere with the fight (as I presume Kubo Tite won't kill her off). At the moment I think the Quincy won't appear until later, but the Visored are a likely possibility.

Edrad: Considering how poorly Chad fared, they logically don't stand much of a chance. They're both candidates for getting saved.

Eil-Fortre: I predict he'll be one of the stronger Arrancar, partially because he's so near Urahara, partially because he has nearly no mask (though the latter theory could be wrong). Considering that Renji shouldn't be able to defeat him, it is likely we will see Urahara fight seriously for the first time.

Other things: I would be disappointed if Ichigo takes out D-Roy and Grim Jaw. Given that they're supposed to be so powerful, that would be a bit unbelievable to me (though it isn't as if Ichigo doesn't stretch believability already).

Aside, I really hope no one ever reaches a point where it is easy to defeat Arrancar. Along the same lines, I hope Bankai doesn't become common-place (can anyone say DBZ?). Kubo Tite has enough elements of power to work with for such things to be necessary.

[Kami]

I agree. I think Kubo-sama will most likely throw some wrenches, a nail and a lot of crap in before this arch is over XD ! I'm totally looking forward to the fights, I think Ichigo will have a tough time with D-Roy, because, if you look in Volume 3 chapter 25, you can see glimpses of D-Roy and GrimJaw. Judging by the dialogueand situation, D-Roy and GrimJaw are the toughest opponents. They were punishing GrandFisher. I also think Eil-forte looks rather tough.

I think GrimJaw will pop up somewhere and either Yoruichi or maybe Ishida will fight him and lose. D: Makes it more interesting. Can't wait till 201 comes out >.>;;

-Kami

[Kami]

O.O H-O-L-Y-C-R-A-P. Has either of you looked at the RAW 201 ??! OHMYGOSH. SDJKLFKLSDJFKLj Ok. Since both of you are into this I'm not adding Spoiler tags. Rukia. Shows her Shinigami powers for the first time. Like, the powers you saw at the beginning are like: Ohmygosh you are so weak I'm gonna just do my crap powers on joo. And she shows her Zanpakutou- which looks cool :O I wish I could read Japanese ;.; IT LOOKS SO GOOD. AND LIKE. I want to tell you what happens but I don't want to spoil the whole chapter for you >.> If you want me to tell you, just Reply back saying > OHMYGOSH. WHY DID YOU STOP. >_O; !

-Kami

[uc pseudonym]

I have read it, in addition to a textual translation. On the positive side, it was fairly cool and I'm glad to see he's getting right into this arc and not wasting any time on set up (note how often the Arrancar attack really quickly instead of talking a lot - I like their style). Also, I doubt it is a coincidence that Rukia's Shikai has "White Moon" phrasing, given Ichigo's. Now for the analysis and a question.

Kubo Tite has three different ways he could go with this, and which path he chooses will mean quite a bit. I'll list each possibility and expound on it a bit.

#1) D-roy is nearly unhurt. This would continue the current trend in which the Arrancar are terrifyingly powerful and overwhelming. Ichigo would probably join in the fight.

#2) D-roy is defeated; we learn that some of the Arrancar are weak. This one would make logical sense, but it would considerably lessen the threat that Aizen's army poses. If this is the case, I imagine that Aizen, Gin, Tousen, and a few Arrancar will be exceedingly powerful.

#3) D-roy is defeated; we learn he was powerful. I hope this isn't the case, because in my mind it kills suspension of disbelief. For the sake of organization, I'll give this argument its own paragraph. Meanwhile, in either of the latter two cases, Ichigo will probably fight Grim Jaw.

Rukia cannot be powerful enough to wipe out a Captain-level Arrancar. Even if we say that the Hollow from the beginning took her off guard before she could use any of her skills, if she had really been this strong the Hollow's teeth would have broken on her shoulder (as per Ichigo's fight with Zaraki Kenpachi, or Renji vs Byakuya). While I can accept her becoming somewhat stronger in the short time she has been gone, she's packing quite a large amount of power. Furthermore, this cannot be linked to learning her Shikai, because given that she calls the technique used "First Dance" we can assume there will be more, indicating that she has a fairly advanced understanding of it.

Now, something that is either a plot hole or something I misunderstand: mod souls. Since when are these so commonly in use? When Kon was introduced, it sounded as though almost all the Mod Souls were scrapped. While I can accept that Urahara has some number of them, the shinigami from Soul Society haven't had contact with him. Have I missed something?

[MasterDias]

Now, something that is either a plot hole or something I misunderstand: mod souls. Since when are these so commonly in use? When Kon was introduced, it sounded as though almost all the Mod Souls were scrapped. While I can accept that Urahara has some number of them, the shinigami from Soul Society haven't had contact with him. Have I missed something?

That wasn't a Mod Soul though. Mod Souls were almost completely destroyed by the Soul Society as they were deemed "unethical" to use. The soul that Rukia put into herself was an ordinary substitute soul designed to take care of her physical body while she's in shinigami form. It doesn't have any of a Mod Soul's enhancements.(Ex:Kon's legs,etc.)

Now, about the chapter itself. It was overall pretty cool. It's good to see that Rukia has her powers back. I am curious as to where exactly Rukia falls on the shinigami ranking system now. That was a pretty impressive technique.

I am somewhat skeptical that he would go down that easily however...unless he is consideribly weaker than we thought.

[Kami]

Yay I'm glad you both read it. I got some translations and stuff. All we know about her powers are :
Zanpakutou's name : Soden Shirayuki
Initial Release : Dance
1st Attack? : First Dance -Tsukishiro

I was highly suprised at her skill level at this point if she did in fact defeat D-Roy. I would feel it was a little .... faux, because of her skill level at the beginning. Seeing as she stepped in the fight, that leaves Ichigo open, with 2 choices, as pointed out by UC-sama. D-roy living - In which Ichigo enters the fight [ I highly believe this option is going to happen because of his earlier appearance in Book 3 ] OR D-roy being defeated, thus they both go on the hunt for other Arrancar. DunDunDunn I don't know about you two, but I can't wait >_<

-Kami

[uc pseudonym]

You bring up another good point: we saw D-roy much earlier in Bleach. I would hate to think he was placed there so long ago only to be a weak flunky later on.

That wasn't a Mod Soul though. Mod Souls were almost completely destroyed by the Soul Society as they were deemed "unethical" to use. The soul that Rukia put into herself was an ordinary substitute soul designed to take care of her physical body while she's in shinigami form. It doesn't have any of a Mod Soul's enhancements.(Ex:Kon's legs,etc.)

Hm, I somehow missed that distinction. Glad to put it aside, however.

I don't know about you two, but I can't wait

Yes, I definitely want to see what Kubo Tite has in store in terms of plot. Not in the least because I have Bleach fanfiction I want to write, but I don't want to begin without knowing important details about the past.

[MasterDias]

Well, I read the latest chapter last night:

To sum up:

1. D-roy has indeed been beaten.

2. Rukia always had the potential to be a seated officer but her brother prevented her from becoming one due to the increased danger.

3. Ikkaku "strikes a deal" with a pretty clueless Keigo("I hope the action scene you're doing works out well. It'll be on TV, right?) to stay at his house in exchange for protecting him from this hollow.

I guess we will see what happens. Although the other enemies basically dismissed D-roy's defeat as a fluke, it appears that he was indeed the weakest one so I would imigine that the other fights will last much longer.

[uc pseudonym]

It appears Kubo Tite is well aware of the general disbelief of Rukia's power, so he has offered an explanation for her lack of a Seat and downplayed D-roy. While this is good, I am still skeptical for the reasons already stated. However, I have thought of something that would be ironic: what if D-roy was so weak that it turns out that Rukia is really weak after all?

As for now, I stand by what I said earlier. Ikkaku can't beat Edrad (unless his partner's draining Shikai is used cleverly), Hitsugaya's fight will still determine a lot, and Ichigo is going to fight Grim Jaw (though if he and Rukia had to team up to do it I'd be impressed).

[MasterDias]

I've read the latest chapter.

There isn't a whole lot to comment on as it was basically Ikkaku and his opponent trading blows. I have a suspician that every shinigami in Kenpachi's division is a fightaholic.

Also, I thought that the Spanish at the end of the chapter was kind've cool. Tite uses some interesting naming conventions.

[uc pseudonym]

Quite so. I also have few comments regarding this chapter. The only really interesting development was the first time an Arrancar revealed a Shikai, and it is still unclear if they operate the same as shinigami or different entirely. It was done in such a manner that it is possible they do not have Bankai (which I think would be a good route to go; it would make everything more balanced). Unless Ikkaku's strength has been significantly raised, if he beats Idolad I'll be convinced that the Arrancar are not as dangerous as they appeared.

[MasterDias]

Unless Ikkaku's strength has been significantly raised, if he beats Idolad I'll be convinced that the Arrancar are not as dangerous as they appeared.

True.
On one hand, however, Idolad said that he was the thirteenth Arrancar. D-roy was the sixteenth. One wouldn't think that there would be a significant amount of power difference between two Arrancar that are those three ranks apart.

Of course, I could be just confusing myself...

[uc pseudonym]

I wonder if the Arrancar are really ranked by level of power. It would make most sense to me if they were numbered by order of creation, but I could certainly be wrong. The fact that Grim Jaw is #6 seems to support the former interpretation.

The reason I'm skeptical, however, is that this would mean we haven't seen Arrancer 17-22 yet. Could there really be 6 Arrancar weaker than D-roy? You wouldn't think Kubo Tite would introduce some of the weakest Arrancar last. He has plenty of powerful characters remaining, and fewer important characters at low levels of power.

[uc pseudonym]

My cynical off-hand remark for the chapter: I cannot wait to see Hanatarou's Bankai.

The fight between Ikkaku and Idolad hasn't interested me terribly. I must confess that I don't know who will win, but I would rather see Hitsugaya's fight. Ichigo will also probably have an interesting battle, but I think we can assume that he will win or if he loses become involved in a major plot development.

[blue elf]

Personally, I want to see Renji's fight. I wonder if Urahara and Yoruichi will join in. ^^ I want to see Urahara's Ban Kai....if he has one.

[uc pseudonym]

That's also true. I really don't care about Renji's fight (we already saw him against Bayakuya, and if he's advanced too much I'll be disappointed), but I do want to see Urahara. I think we can assume he has a Bankai because he was a former Captain, and it is strongly indicated that all Captains except Zaraki have attained Bankai. Personally, though, I like how he uses his Shikai most of the time.

[blue elf]

Yeah, I know we've already seen Renji, but he's one of my favorite characters. lol I wouldn't mind seeing Ichigo's dad fight either.