Blasphemy? It seems to make a lot of sense...

[Naga Kisaki]

Look at this.

http://www.satanicverses.org




No, it's not verses from any satanic bible, It's actually a page I found while searching for scripture about Satan's lies. Now, Read through what it says,All of it, because theres something at the end. Is this real-live Blasphemy?
I've never seen any before, and some of what they say makes so much sence, I sort of want what they say to be tture, like the part about women being worth ten sheckels and men being worth twenty is a scripture that doesn't come from God...

What do you think? I really don't know, but I'd like to know. That's why I'm asking...

If it is Blasphemy, I'm sorry for posting it.

If it isn't, then what does this mean...?

[Sweet Mercury]

Well, if it helps, most of what is said in your link is taken way out of context. In order to get a truer understanding of religious texts it is best to read them in whole sections, not just convenient snippets. Words, particularly English words and phrases, are not always straight forward.

Also, there is a great deal of historical context to be considered as well. Not only that, but the auther displays his ignorance by referring to the Sabbath mentioned in Exodus as Sunday, when the Jewish Sabbath was on Saturday at the time of the Torah.

You might not believe this, but there is a abundance of material that might be considered blasphemous or otherwise offensive to one's religion or beliefs to be found on the internet; if you don't like something you see, it might be best to just ignore it. I wouldn't put much stock in what this Ethicius character says. Use your own judgement and, even better, talk it over with someone whom you find to be knowledgable and trustworthy.

Also, as a possible point of interest, The Satanic Bible, is a scam. A book written by Anton LeVay in the '60s about his "philosophy," but in reality it's just something made to provoke Christians specifically, and he made a lot of money telling followers that they were "enlightened." If you ask me, it's a rather weak and poor form of enlightenment if its sole basis is the antagonization of another group.

The Satanic Verses is a fictional novel by apostate British Muslim Salman Rushdie. It was controversal, but only in the Muslim world. As I understand it, it makes no references to Christianity and is not considered offensive to Christians.

[EireWolf]

I'm leaving this thread open for now, as there are several people on CAA who may have some good responses for you. But I'll issue a friendly warning against theological debate. What constitutes debate and what constitutes sound reasoning can be a blurry line at times, so please exercise good judgement.

Just FYI: If someone throws something in here just to be argumentative and get the thread locked, I'll simply delete their post and issue a strike.

And now I shall work on a response to your actual question. I shall return.

[EireWolf]

Sweet Mercury is right -- what this guy is saying is taken WAY out of context. And I have a major problem with somebody who declares himself "ordained by God" to rip out any piece of the Bible that he deems "Satanic," especially with no scholarly research whatsoever to back it up. It is clear that this person has no understanding of Hebrew culture, history, or Law. He is merely looking for things that appear to be against his personal concept of God, taking them out of context, and declaring that God couldn't possibly have said this.

Now, I am not a Bible scholar by any means, and I am not the best qualified person to respond to the verses in question. I don't have all the answers, and I don't understand why God would make some of those laws. But I do have a few comments. The laws set in place by God through Moses were not for the world at large. They were for the Hebrew people, God's chosen people -- His followers. Those laws were set in place by a holy God to define the behavior of His holy people. God is loving, yes... but He is also holy. He does not tolerate sin. If He did, He would not be a holy God. The verses about putting people to death who commit certain sins -- those laws were for the holiness of the Hebrew community. It sounds really harsh to us today, but we cannot look at the Old Testament only through New Testament eyes. We must also understand the history and the culture of that day. And, time and time again, when the people began to tolerate sin and forget the Laws of God, they fell away from Him completely and worshipped the false gods of the neighboring nations.

Here is an example of the way this guy is taking things grossly out of context:

[quote="Ethicius"]LEVITICUS 26:29 “You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughtersâ€

[Naga Kisaki]

Well, his whole tolorance of slavery and the fact that he says men are worth more money then women will never sit well with me. Before My relationship with God was strengthened, I could never read the old testement because I would read something about God's word on women that would make me cry. Like the fact that if a woman being raped doesn't scream she get's put to death with the rapist.

I'm not arguing, Or trying to start an argument. I'm just thinking out loud. When I first saw this I really wanted to know wether it was blasphemy, and that's why I posted it, thanks for letting it go, Eriewolf, I just really want to learn more about Gods ways, and if you can't tell yet, reading the bible usually doens't teach me as much as talking to someone else.

[EricTheFred]

An old woman I used to know, who was a treasure trove of bizarre sayings that were sprinkled liberally through her conversation, had one that, in retrospect, turned out to be one of the wisest things I ever heard:

"If you go nit-picking, you're gonna find nits"

That's my philosophy on pretty much anyone who starts going through the Bible with a fine-toothed comb instead of a faithful heart.
Just keep it in mind; God knows better. It may be that he knows better, and what you see as horrid is something you just don't understand in its context. Or that he knows better, and what is troubling you is there for some reason that isn't clear. Or that he knows better, and there is some other explanation for that bit. You don't need the explanation, to know that God is wise, faithful and just. Let the arm-chair lawyers argue between themselves about the silly details, and about what's blasphemy or not. You've got God to guide you, so you're in much better shape.

[EireWolf]

Naga, I totally understand your concerns, and I share them. But part of the reason we need to study the context is so that we can better understand these issues.

It doesn't say that men are worth more than women. It says that male slaves are worth more money than female slaves. This makes sense in light of the nature of slavery -- disturbing though it may be to us. Men are physically stronger than women; hence they can do more manual labor; hence their labor is worth more overall (because they can do more). It does not mean that God values men more than women.

If you read about the life of Christ, you will see that He values women highly. Again, studying it in the context of the times -- in Jesus' day, Jewish men would not even talk to women who were not their family members, and they would certainly not associate with Samaritans. Yet we see Jesus freely conversing with the Samaritan woman at the well, forgiving the woman caught in adultery (and saving her from certain death by stoning), and having close friends who were women (the two Marys, Martha), etc.. Jesus treated women as equals.

As for the laws about rape -- they were to protect the woman AND the man from false accusations. If it happened in a town and she did not scream, the man and the woman were to be put to death. If it happened in the country, only the man would be put to death. The reason? "...for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her." (Deut. 22:27) See, if she's in the city, there are people around who would hear her scream and come to her rescue. But if she's not screaming for help, she's not being raped. It's too easy for her to claim he raped her, so that she can avoid the penalty for adultery. Again, context is essential to understanding.

[Arnobius]

It was also a brutal era in time. As bad as these laws seem, also consider that they also limited what could be done compared to the neighboring societies. Followers of Baal and Moloch for example, practiced human sacrifice, burning infants in sacrifice.

I think what we are seeing here is God leading the people out of savagery at a pace they could understand. These things are disturbing to us yes, but these laws (which need to be read in context, and not seperate as this site did) show that God forbade the Jews from doing the even worse practices of their neighbors.

[Naga Kisaki]

That makes sence.

See? THAT'S why I ask you guys this stuff! You know about it!

[Kaligraphic]

The page pulls verses out of context and simply condemns them without any understanding. Like Eirewolf pointed out, the verse about eating children is a warning, not a command.

The author of that page has no understanding of what blasphemy even is (LEV 24:16) - condemning people for saying the wrong words? It's talking about the Jewish people rejecting Jesus, just like when Jesus says "All manner of sin shall be forgiven, but blasphemy against the holy Spirit shall not be forgiven" - speaking of the rejection of the gift by the Jews so that it could be given freely to everyone, Jew or Gentile. It has nothing to do with uttering random words.

The whole Bible basically is trying to get into your head that God loves you - and it has to go to some lengths to explain to you what love is. The law is designed to get through to you some idea of what righteousness is, and why Jesus' death on the cross for you is such an incredibly awesome gift of love. When God decreed that no work be done on the sabbath, He wasn't just talking about Saturday*. He was talking about the true rest that He wants to bring you into - a rest where you don't work for your own righteousness, but trust entirely in the righteousness of God. Whoever would undertake any part of the law for righteousness must be righteous by every last bit of the law, or be condemned - but if you trust only in the righteousness of God, and not in your own behaviour for righteousness, then the law doesn't even come into the equation.


Basically, this is someone who just doesn't like certain verses in the Bible, and is condemning them without even considering the idea that he might not understand what they mean. (Hint, the author is still around, and is perfectly willing to explain what he was talking about - surely asking the author what certain passages mean would be at least a bit more accurate than simply guessing...)

I'm not trying to open up an argument here, it's just that the page sounds like nothing more than ignorant ramblings, and I don't want anybody to think that it's anything more than that.



* Saturday was the original sabbath. I know there's some difference of opinion there, so if you prefer Sunday, that's fine - I don't really care. Read Thursday there if you prefer, whatever, the day of the week is not the point.

[shooraijin]

I think that some really good things have been said on this, and as such this is a good point to end on. Naga, I'm glad your questions were answered. For safety's sake, I'm going to close this so that others can read it unmolested.