Bleach Speculation (Chapters 300+)

[uc pseudonym]

Interesting. I always assumed Soi Fong was one of the stronger Captains, actually. She gave off that vibe to me.

If she has a good Bankai to go with her exceedingly cheap Shikai, then she definitely could be. The other underestimated Captain is Mayuri - sure, Ishida beat him, but his abilities are still unfairly deadly. Both are victims of the shonen manga thing.

Although some of those "consecutive unrelated arcs" were actually the editors' fault who forced the manga-ka to keep going due to extreme popularity.

That's a good point I should have considered more. I think (hope) that this is less likely to occur when manga-ka have planned very long arcs from the start.

Now, what are Vastrodes again?

The strongest Hollows, according to Hitsugaya when he explains the three different levels of Menos (Menos Grandes or Gilians, Adjucas, and lastly Vastrodes). They were mentioned more recently at the end of the chapter where Aizen talks to Gin. I personally think that Aizen has Vastrodes under his command as the top ranked Arrancar. Others seem to believe that a hybridized Vastrode would be unbelievably powerful and that we won't see one (leading to theories like the one I mentioned).

On a new subject, I'm curious what you think about the overall power balance between Aizen and everyone else. On Bleachforums (the site I lurk occasionally) some people seem to think that the Arrancar are too weak, others that they are overpowering. I'll keep silent about my opinion for now. But what are your impressions?

[MasterDias]

If she has a good Bankai to go with her exceedingly cheap Shikai, then she definitely could be. The other underestimated Captain is Mayuri - sure, Ishida beat him, but his abilities are still unfairly deadly. Both are victims of the shonen manga thing.

And speaking of Mayuri, I've always wondered why Soul Society let someone like him become a captain. He treats his subordinates and second like dirt, and is the classic example of a sadistic mad scientist.
I suppose we will get his backstory at some point...

Although, I suppose Kubo Tite used him as a red herring. Most people would have assumed that he would be a traitor before Tousen.

That's a good point I should have considered more. I think (hope) that this is less likely to occur when manga-ka have planned very long arcs from the start.

Yeah. Bleach is seeminly shaping up to be a fairly long manga anyway so I'm not particularly worried in that regard.

On a new subject, I'm curious what you think about the overall power balance between Aizen and everyone else. On Bleachforums (the site I lurk occasionally) some people seem to think that the Arrancar are too weak, others that they are overpowering. I'll keep silent about my opinion for now. But what are your impressions?

Well, it is harder to guess power levels in Bleach that in the average shonen manga I've found.

The Arrancar greater than ten are not particularly very strong(I hesitate to use the term "weak" as it can underestimate strength), or at least not stronger than the Soul Society seated officers, as Rukia was able to beat one easily and her power cannot be greater than a vice-captain at the most.

The "Espada" however are a different story. The ones we've seen have been able to hold their own against or technically beat Ichigo & Hitsugaya's team. Although, from what I remember, they have only actually faced several "Captain-level" people in the battles; Hitsugaya, Ichigo, and Urahara are the strongest of the people they have faced. Ikkaku doesn't apparantly want to use bankai in front of most of his comrades, Renji is still somewhat inexperienced with Bankai, and Yoroichi only faced them briefly.
I want to see how someone like Kenpachi or Byakuya would do against the Espada...

In short, I don't necessarily think the Espada are "overpowered" as long as their strength isn't dragged out. Which is why I'm hoping that the conclusion of the IchigoxGrimjaw thing will be finished soon...

[uc pseudonym]

And speaking of Mayuri, I've always wondered why Soul Society let someone like him become a captain. He treats his subordinates and second like dirt, and is the classic example of a sadistic mad scientist.
I suppose we will get his backstory at some point...

I hope, anyway. There are so many characters, I'm not sure how many of them can be fleshed out. However, I do definitely expect Mayuri to get one more fight in the series.

As for why he is a Captain... it seems to me that Soul Society values strength and little else (the 13 Squads are really just military, after all). Though it does seem unnatural that they have heavy punishments for relatively minor crimes and yet other things go right past.

Yeah. Bleach is seeminly shaping up to be a fairly long manga anyway so I'm not particularly worried in that regard.

One thing I think is notable about it is that there wasn't simply a four-month jump to the final battle. I like that there are intermediate arcs, and I hope this is used to the fullest extent. Both sides have goals, yet aren't going to attack with full force. Conflicts over the pieces before the final battle are interesting to me, so I hope there are more.

Well, it is harder to guess power levels in Bleach that in the average shonen manga I've found.

And, to a certain degree, it isn't always just about power.

In short, I don't necessarily think the Espada are "overpowered" as long as their strength isn't dragged out. Which is why I'm hoping that the conclusion of the IchigoxGrimjaw thing will be finished soon...

My overall view is that the two sides are about equal, simply with different tiers of power. For example, the rogue captains and the top Espada are likely exceedingly powerful, but on the other side are Captains like Yamamoto and we all know Ichigo will get to that level. Then the other Espada are also very powerful, equal to a normal Captain at least, so I expect a second tier of battles against some of the other Captains. Lastly, the normal Arrancar are strong, but probably just on the level of some of the side characters. It strikes me that Kubo Tite is setting up for a very big finale in which almost everyone will get a fight.

Given how long the Soul Society arc took, the battles alone could last for years.

[MasterDias]

Alright, I've read 241:

-Ishida is helping Ichigo because of a "loophole." That was some pretty good verbal manipulation from Urahara.

-Judging from Orihime's thoughts, her intention was to bide time for Ichigo and the others to prepare for the war... although she appears to having some second thoughts about it.

-Isshin knows Ryuuken. Not that surprising, although I have to wonder how many of these people behind the scenes know each other.
Urahara seems to know (or is at least aware of) him as well...

Also...

One thing I think is notable about it is that there wasn't simply a four-month jump to the final battle. I like that there are intermediate arcs, and I hope this is used to the fullest extent. Both sides have goals, yet aren't going to attack with full force. Conflicts over the pieces before the final battle are interesting to me, so I hope there are more.

Yeah, I like this as well. There is quite a bit going on, and major stuff that still has yet to be revealed.

[uc pseudonym]

One thought of my own is that I'm surprised everyone seems alerted to Ichigo and company's presence from the beginning. You wouldn't think they'd stand a chance.

That was some pretty good verbal manipulation from Urahara.

Indeed it was. I wonder if he had a particular motive for seeking out Ishida to join Ichigo and Chad.

-Isshin knows Ryuuken. Not that surprising, although I have to wonder how many of these people behind the scenes know each other.

I have a theory that there was a big incident in the past that might tie together a lot of the main background characters and answer some of the nagging questions. But it could be more complicated than that too. Regarding that scene, I thought one bit of dialogue was particularly effective, the one in which Isshin says "You're a terrible father."

[MasterDias]

I have a theory that there was a big incident in the past that might tie together a lot of the main background characters and answer some of the nagging questions. But it could be more complicated than that too. Regarding that scene, I thought one bit of dialogue was particularly effective, the one in which Isshin says "You're a terrible father."

It's possible. If we have Isshin, Ryuuken, Urahara, Yoroichi...possibly even presently deceased characters like Masaki and/or Ishida's grandfather...
Meanwhile, I'm waiting for the explanation as to why Isshin almost let his daughters get eaten...twice.

[uc pseudonym]

I suspect that's authorial oversight, actually.

But the real reason I'm posting is because of a development in chapter 244 that might be worth a bit of discussion. Spoilers for dramatic effect:
[spoiler=Chapter 244]The revelation of all the Espada at once.[/spoiler]

Not that this tells us much. But it's certainly of interest. I'll offer further comments once someone else responds.

[Bap]

I was trying to figure out which numbers were which. xD; Do you have any guesses? o: I thought it might've been like... from left to right [From our view]? Like, the guy on Yami's [I think his name is? xD; I've seen a lot of translations for his name. >_>;] right is one, and then from then on it's two, three, four, five, then it's Grimmjow next? o: And etc. But of course, that's only if they sat in order. xD;

[uc pseudonym]

Hey, glad to have someone else to discuss this with. Romanizations vary a lot, yes. I just pick something and stick with it unless I have a reason to change.

We only know that Ulquiorra is #1, Grimmjow is #6, and Yamii is #10. So potentially 1-5 could be sitting on our left and 6-10 going the opposite direction on our right. For some reason I think that they're seated randomly, though. They seem pretty informal to me. I'm curious about which rank the female-looking Arrancar is. Will she be a serious fighter (more so than just being an Espada, I mean) or only fight some other female character?

A few ironies:
Soul Society's Captains meetings seem very formal and stiff. Aizen's leadership seems to be fairly relaxed.
When Soul Society captured Rukia, they put her in an empty room. Aizen at least gave Orihime a decent room with some pillows and a couch.

[MasterDias]

Hey, glad to have someone else to discuss this with. Romanizations vary a lot, yes. I just pick something and stick with it unless I have a reason to change.

We only know that Ulquiorra is #1, Grimmjow is #6, and Yamii is #10. So potentially 1-5 could be sitting on our left and 6-10 going the opposite direction on our right. For some reason I think that they're seated randomly, though. They seem pretty informal to me. I'm curious about which rank the female-looking Arrancar is. Will she be a serious fighter (more so than just being an Espada, I mean) or only fight some other female character?

By the female-looking Arrancar, do you mean the fourth arrancar on the left? I can't really make her out all that clearly. One of the arrancar isn't very visible at all, thanks to the sleepy guy leaning on the table.

And what's up with the guy that looks like he has a sausage for a head or something...

I suspect that's authorial oversight, actually.

So do I.
But I'd sort of rather him come up with an explanation, than leave it as a plot hole.

[uc pseudonym]

That would be preferable, yes. We don't quite know his status earlier, as Urahara and the elder Ishida both seemed to talk about him "regaining his powers." Perhaps he wasn't in a hiding gigai so much as actually limited.

By the female-looking Arrancar, do you mean the fourth arrancar on the left? I can't really make her out all that clearly.

I'm pretty sure she was 4th on the left, but I'm just going from memory. She's a bit far away in this chapter, but she's appeared several times already (when Ulquiorra reports about Ichigo and when Wonderweiss is created, namely). Not sure if I've said this, but she is my favorite nameless Arrancar, fairly arbitrarily. I tend to like characters that seem calm and collected.

And what's up with the guy that looks like he has a sausage for a head or something...

Heh. I think it is a very tall metal mask type thing. It certainly is unorthodox.

[Bap]

Hey, glad to have someone else to discuss this with. Romanizations vary a lot, yes. I just pick something and stick with it unless I have a reason to change.

We only know that Ulquiorra is #1, Grimmjow is #6, and Yamii is #10. So potentially 1-5 could be sitting on our left and 6-10 going the opposite direction on our right. For some reason I think that they're seated randomly, though. They seem pretty informal to me. I'm curious about which rank the female-looking Arrancar is. Will she be a serious fighter (more so than just being an Espada, I mean) or only fight some other female character?

A few ironies:
Soul Society's Captains meetings seem very formal and stiff. Aizen's leadership seems to be fairly relaxed.
When Soul Society captured Rukia, they put her in an empty room. Aizen at least gave Orihime a decent room with some pillows and a couch.

Ah, Ulquiorra is number one? o: Guess I missed that. xD; *Only knew that Yami was ten and Grimmjow was six* xD;

[uc pseudonym]

Actually, that's my error. I almost went back and changed it, but banked on no one noticing. No, it has never been revealed that Ulquiorra is the #1 Espada. Lots of people just assume it, and I think there is evidence for it (Aizen putting him in charge of missions, for example).

Meanwhile, with the newest chapter we have more talking between the Espada and Aizen either using an ability or just pouring raw reiatsu. Either way, I'm more interested in the ending - is it possible that there are Hollows that aren't so bad?

[Bap]

Ah, okay. 8D

I think Aizen was just doing the whole really big supar spiritual pressure thing with Grimmjow. xD; Who knows though. 8D

As for not all Hollows being bad, that would work.. right? o: After all, aren't Hollows just spirits that had regret or something? @o@a

[uc pseudonym]

The only difference between what Aizen did and normal spiritual pressure is that when anyone else did it, everyone nearby seemed to be effected. I personally agree that Aizen is merely capable of manipulating his spiritual pressure to impact only a certain person, not using any special ability.

I'm not so sure about Hollows. They begin as normal spirits, but becoming Hollows seriously twists them. Consider Orihime's brother, who comes to his senses but insists that Ichigo purify him before he gives into his Hollow side.

Related to that, however, it seems that the Arrancar are perfectly civil (I mean, they're drinking tea). I must wonder if we'll see any of them turn good.

[Bap]

Ah, alrighty. 8D

They are, aren't they? xD If any of them do turn good, I wonder how that'd turn out. xD; Perhaps work at a nearby convenience store? 8D

And I was looking through the chapters around the time the Vizard show up, and I was just wondering.. are they like.. spirits and stuff? D: Like, the shinigami or something? Or are they like... in actual human form and stuff, and are... solid, I guess? Or do they use uh.. gigais? @~@a

Bleach confuses me sometimes with things like if people are spirits or solid or not. xD;

[MasterDias]

I assume that "spiritual beings" would use a gigai to get a form that normal people can see. Hirako showed up in Ichigo's class after all. Although really, how many "normal" people are left in this series who cannot see spirits/hollows/shinigami?

[uc pseudonym]

Ones with names? Not many.

If any of them do turn good, I wonder how that'd turn out.

And if they don't, it will be done in thousands of horrible fanfiction.

[quote="Bap"]And I was looking through the chapters around the time the Vizard show up, and I was just wondering.. are they like.. spirits and stuff? D: Like, the shinigami or something? Or are they like... in actual human form and stuff, and are... solid, I guess? Or do they use uh.. gigais? @~@a

Bleach confuses me sometimes with things like if people are spirits or solid or not. xD]
Find some Bleach-specific forum (like bleachforums.com, for example) and you'll find pages and pages of theories and arguments about these. Personally, I just use one of two different tactics:
1) Go with MasterDias and assume things are working out.
2) Don't think about it. I seriously doubt the manga-ka is thinking about these details that hard.

[Bap]

xD

Well, I guess I'll just go along with it. xDD S'long as it turns out cool? ;D xD

[Bap]

osnaps, has anyone else read the new Bleach chapter? 8D

[Kawaiikneko]

Yup.. what do you think of the little guy? Pretty cute, but his speech is going to get really annoying really fast.

[uc pseudonym]

For a moment I thought "There's a new Bleach chapter?" but Kawaiikneko's comment made me realize which one you were talking about. I read that Wednesday, actually.

What I find most interesting about it is that the little Hollow kid calls the shinigami "bad guys" and seems pretty normal himself. We've already been talking about potentially good Hollows. It seems to me, however, that Hueco Mundo has a relatively advanced society. That is intruiging, because it blurs the lines between good and evil. Unfortunately, I doubt this moral theme will be continued.

[Bap]

xD; I couldn't find the new Bleach chapter at the usual site I checked, so I only found it today. D:

Butyeah~! I was thinking of that as well when I was reading this chapter. xDD This is cool~ @o@~!

[MasterDias]

So....
I actually figured Rukia and Renji were going to show up to help, or at least they were numero uno on my list of people to do so.
Although, I think this is the third time Ichigo has gotton the "Aren't we your nakama speech?" within like 8 chapters or so.

Now, is this going to turn into a sequence of 1vs1 fights as would be typical of shonen manga?

[Bap]

I think that's what they'd do. o: Reach the big impenetrable fortress, one bad guy comes, one good guy leaves, rest goes on, keeps going until they reach the head honcho or whoever. 8D xD; Seems like it. o:

[uc pseudonym]

Now, is this going to turn into a sequence of 1vs1 fights as would be typical of shonen manga?

I like Bleach and I think it's unique in some ways, but it's very, very shonen. We're almost certain to see five different fights in this arc, if not more. Ichigo has a tendency to just keep fighting opponents, after all.

However, I am curious about who will fight whom. It seems to me that Rukia isn't on par with any Espada. Renji might be, and we know next to nothing about what he's been doing for a month. Chad and Ishida will almost certainly have big fights to show off their new power, though I'd be surprised if they could take on too high of an Espada (Chad vs Yamii rematch, mayhaps?).

I hope that Ichigo doesn't fight Grimmjow in this arc. They've been fighting too much lately. Plus, given that Grimmjow wasn't released in the previous fight and is prepared for Ichigo's Hollow mask, I don't think Ichigo can beat him.

[samuraidragon]

I'm a huge Bleach fan, too bad I didn't find this thread earlier. Has anybody been keeping up with it?

What do ya'll think about the Orihime arc?

[uc pseudonym]

You can generally count on myself, MasterDias, and Bap to have read the newest chapter not too long after it comes out.

Regarding the most recent chapter: we were right - definitely a series of one on one fights. Personally, I think Ishida was correct and they should have gone as a group, but shonen rules prevailed.

Otherwise, I'm not really very curious about the thing with Orihime. Either she's been hypnotized, she's doing this against her will, or Kubo Tite has a very big surprise in mind. She's never been a character I care greatly about anyway.

What do ya'll think about the Orihime arc?

Overall? The premise is weak and it feels redundant: a bunch of characters (almost all the same as in Soul Society) against an organization to rescue a relatively weak female character. Unless this turns around I think it's a rather disappointing move for the story.

But that premise might house some much more interesting events. We've gotten to see the Espada, we know much more about Hueco Mundo, and there is the potential for some plot development. If this arc contains some good fights and a few Espada die, that would be acceptable for me.

Part of me really wonders where Kubo Tite is going with this arc. Right now it feels like it's missing something critical to make it worthwhile. I want to believe he has a solid purpose in writing it, such as:
1) A critical change, like Orihime turning evil.
2) A thematic element. For example, if Ichigo beats an Espada but gets utterly defeated by one of the rogue captains.

[samuraidragon]

I wonder if this is going to be a way for Orihime to 'power up.' I'm also assuming that this will be a way for Ichigo's 10 second limit for releasing his hollow to be lengthened.

I'm also trying to figure out how the heck 5 people, of which only one or two are captain level, are supposed to take of Aizen in his own home.

I agree something is missing with the story at this point, but I have to say I'm curious where it's going. I doubt Orihime will turn evil, unless Aizen somehow manipulates her mild envy of Rukia, similar to how he manipulated Hinamori. After her display saying good-bye to Ichigo I don't think she'll ever turn against him, but you never know.

I'm really curious what's going to happen with Wonderwice. I can't help but think he's going to turn against the Espada. He hates fighting and likes to play. Kubo also seemed to emphasize his astonishment when Grimmjow murdered Luppi.

[Bap]

As for what I think of the Orihime arc, I'm going to agree that it is a lot like the whole Soul Society arc with saving a weak girl and stuff. xD; But I think what I like about this better is... I dunno, I really, really like the Espada. xD; I also sorta want to see if any of the Vizard are going to make an appearance in this, or if they're just going to leave them alone until... later? o:

And yeah, with their five people, it really does make you wonder how they're going to pull this off. D: Maybe Soul Society would change their mind and send for some back-up? o: Or something like that? xD;

Missing something... I'm getting that feeling as well. xD; I think I'm sorta hoping that they'll put in something like that whole... Rukia's sister thing like they did at the end of the other arc...? Except.. less... last minute-ish? xD;

And for Wonderwice, he's an interesting one. xD; I mean, he doesn't seem like someone who'd like... go around... being... all mean and killing stuff. D: